§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve Itself into Committee.—(Lord Sydenham.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
§ [LORD STANMORE in the Chair.]
§ Clause 1:
§ Provisions with respect to demands and receipts for rent in which any sum for rates is included.
§ 1. From and after the date hereinafter named every document containing a demand for rent or receipt, for rent, which includes any sum for rates paid or payable under the existing law by the owner instead of the occupier, shall state either the annual, half yearly, quarterly, monthly, or weekly amount of such rates paid or payable in accordance with the last demands received by the owner from the rating authorities at the time of making his demand or giving his receipt in respect of the hereditament in question: Provided that where such a statement as is required by this section has been furnished in connection with a demand for rent or receipt for rent in respect of a particular period, it shall not be necessary to furnish the statement upon any subsequent demand for rent or receipt for rent in respect of that period.
1124§ LORD PHILLIMORE moved to substitute the words "any statutory enactment" for "the existing law." The noble and learned Lord said: It has been suggested to me on behalf of the City of London Corporation that the language of this clause might be improved. According to my Amendment on the Paper I proposed to substitute the words "statutory requirement," but I have had some conversation with the noble Lord in charge of the Bill and I understand that if I use the words "any statutory enactment." he will be satisfied; therefore I beg to move my Amendment in that form.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 1, page 1, lines 7 and 8, leave out ("the existing law") and insert ("any statutory enactment").—(Lord Phillimore.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ LORD PHILLIMORE moved to add to Clause 1 the following proviso: "Provided further, that if there is an increase in the rates of which the owner does not intend to avail himself for making an increase in the rent, it shall not be necessary for him to make a fresh calculation or to alter his previous form of demand for rent or receipt for rent."
§ The noble and learned Lord said: I am not so sure whether the noble Lord in charge of the Bill will assent to this proposal, but I submit it to your Lordships as extremely convenient. The object of the Bill is to provide that tenants shall know how much they have to pay by way of rates. It is very good object, but we do not want to penalise landowners and householders by giving them trouble and expense which can be avoided. My proposition is this. An owner makes out the calculations—they are really very minute if the property is held on weekly tenancies—once and for all, how much is rates and how much is rent. At some half-year the rating authority may raise the rates by ½d. in the £, and it may be that this ½d is not divisible; ½d. in the £ on a £4 rating would not be divisible into twenty-six weeks. I do not want the owner, where he does not intend to avail himself of the small increase in the rates for making an increase in the rent, to be put to the cost and trouble of making a fresh calculation because of that increase of ½d. or 1d. in the £. If the rates are lowered, of course he must make a calculation, because otherwise he is representing to the tenant that he is 1125 paying more for rates than is really the case. But when the rates are slightly increased so that the landlord's share of the rent is slightly less, I do not want him, under the penalty of being considered a wrongdoer and being hauled before the magistrate and fined 20s., to have the necessity of making a fresh calculation. I think all the objects of the Bill will be satisfied if this Amendment is introduced, and inasmuch as my noble friend has consented to one Amendment and the Bill, therefore, most go back to the other House, I press upon your Lordships that this Amendment should be adopted
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 1, line 18, at end insert ("Provided further, that if there is an increase in the rates of which the owner does not intend to avail himself for making an increase in the rent, it shall not be necessary for him to make a fresh calculation or to alter his previous form of demand for rent or receipt for rent").—(Lord Phillimore.)
§ LORD SYDENHAMI venture to think that this Amendment is somewhat inconsistent with the principle of the Bill, which is that the tenant should have such information as it is possible to give him as to rates levied by the local authority. If the sum divided was so small as to be negligible, a fresh calculation would not be made. In any case it would only have to be made every half year. There will not be any alteration of form because there will be a fixed form, which will have served for the last demand. There would be only the question of altering one of the columns of the form. All that the Bill asks is that information should be given as to the rates paid or payable under the existing law by the owner instead of the occupier in accordance with the last demands received by the owner from the rating authorities at the time of making his demand or giving his receipt. In the case contemplated by the noble and learned Lord, if the landlord is going to shoulder the burden of the rates himself, I should have thought he would be glad that his tenants should know of his generosity. I hope, therefore, that the noble and learned Lord will not press the Amendment, which I think would be rejected in another place, so that it would have to conic back to your Lordships.
§ LORD PHILLIMOREYes.
§ On Question, Amendment negatived.
1126§ LORD PHILLIMORE then moved to add a subsection to Clause 1, to provide that "This Act shall not apply to weekly lettings at inclusive rentals in any market established or controlled by statute." The noble and learned Lord said: This Amendment, again, is moved at the request of the Corporation of the City of London, who feel that they are likely to be seriously embarrassed by some of the provisions of the Bill. I do not deal with other points which are in charge of the noble Lord, Lord Southwark, but I submit that the Corporation are right in regard to this one. I know that the noble Lord in charge of the Bill thinks this an unnecessary provision, but I am not satisfied that he is right. The markets are let at rents controlled by statutes; they are inclusive rents, including rates. It is impossible to say what particular rate is imposed on any particular stall. That is the very reason for making this provision apply; and, inasmuch as the noble Lord agrees that in his construction of the Act it does not apply to these weekly lettings and as I venture to think it is extremely doubtful whether it does not apply to them, no harm can be done by inserting this proviso. I can assure your Lordships that those who have looked into the matter more fully than I have had time to do, and those who are in charge of markets such as those of the Corporation of the City of London, think it is very necessary.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 1, after line 18, insert:
2. This Act shall not apply to weekly lettings at inclusive rentals in any market established under or controlled by statute."—(Lord Phillimore.)
§ LORD SYDENHAMAs there seemed to be some doubt on the point, I referred this matter to the Local Government Board. They told me that in their opinion it would not apply in the cases which are mentioned in the Amendment of the noble and learned Lord. Therefore I ant afraid I must oppose the Amendment.
§ LORD SOUTHWARKI should like to support the Amendment of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Phillimore, and I hope that the noble Lord in charge of the Bill will not persevere in his objection.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.
1127§ LORD SOUTHWARKThere was an Amendment which I wished to propose to the effect that "This Act should not apply to the City of London." I have not put the Amendment on the Paper. It will probably be put down for the Report stage, and perhaps in the meantime the noble Lord will consider whether he can accept it.
§ Remaining clauses agreed to.