LORDS AMENDMENTS. (Hansard, 24 July 1919)

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, these words were inserted in the Bill during the Report stage in this House. The noble Lord who moved the Amendment very candidly stated that it was incomplete in itself, and that other words would necessarily have to be added. Both the original scheme and the variant which, if my memory serves me rightly, was suggested by Lord Salisbury, would require a careful investigation, and I tried to point out that on the Report stage it was really hardly practicable that an adequate investigation of that kind could be made.

Everybody agrees—and I think everybody agreed who considered this question from the point of view of the House of Commons—that if a scheme could be devised for making fruitful use of the accumulated funds in the hands of the building societies without increasing the burden on the Exchequer, it would be a 1062 most admirable arrangement. I think acknowledgment is due to the noble Lord who made the suggestion, but I must say quite frankly that the particular schemes which have been suggested have not recommended themselves to the Treasury. In these circumstances the right hon. gentleman in charge of the Bill below did not ask the House of Commons to agree with the Amendment, though he dealt with it in an extremely sympathetic manner and promised that the whole subject should be carefully explored.

I hope that your Lordships will not think it necessary to insist upon the Amendment which, in fact, would be meaningless unless the Commons inserted some additional words such as those which the noble Earl suggested. For this reason, I beg to move that your Lordships do not insist upon this Amendment.

§ EARL GREY

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Stanhope moved this Amendment in my name in my enforced absence in Newcastle owing to the railway strike. I am very sorry I was not able to get back because, after putting down the Amendment, certain further knowledge bearing upon it did come to my notice which I should like to put before your Lordships. I recognise the truth of what the noble and learned Lord says, that it would be futile to ask your Lordships to re-insert the Amendment, because we are in the hands of another place and it is necessary that other words should be added. As they have said they are unwilling to add them at this stage there is nothing further to be done.

I welcome very much the words which fell from the noble Lord, in which he describes what Dr. Addison said as a specific promise that the whole subject should be looked into. The words which were actually used in another place, in recommending that this Amendment should be dropped, included the following— I am afraid it raises exceedingly difficult questions involving practically a subsidy to a private individual, and that is a very difficult matter, as the House knows. I cannot help reminding your Lordships that the Amendment is to Clause 21, which is called "Loans to private persons," and it says that during a period of two years 1063 money may be advanced to any private person for the purpose of constructing houses for the working classes. I was always given to understand that the greater included the less, and if this clause took power to grant loans to private persons to erect houses for the working classes, it would naturally cover anybody who wanted to advance loans for the erection of a single house for that purpose. Still I do welcome the promise that this matter shall be further looked into.

Whilst I was at Newcastle I had occasion to have a conversation with five secretaries of some of the leading building societies there. As your Lordships know, it is especially in the North of England that building societies are so strong. I discussed this particular scheme which, as I say, came to my notice quite by chance, and, to my surprise, I was informed that it had been discussed by the building societies and very favourably viewed by them no less than two years ago. Although the Government professed great interest and anxiety, I was informed that the scheme had been forwarded to the Government, but it had received no sympathy at all. In view of the really favourable reception it has received I regret that it was not looked into at the time when the Government had plenty of opportunity to examine it in detail. I also put the point direct to them whether it would be possible for the building societies to finance the Government portion of the money which would be required to build the houses in contemplation, and I was assured that there would not be the slightest, difficulty in financing those houses.

Therefore, had I been here last Thursday, I should have been able to assure your Lordships, on the authority of these very prominent members of the building societies themselves, that this provision, had it been accepted in another place, would have enabled a very large number of houses to be built without calling upon the Treasury to find any large capital sum but only the interest on the capital. In view of the fact that this is the only way in which private enterprise really can be assisted, and the high character of those who are members of building societies, I hope the Government will look into this question with a view of trying to work out some method which will enable them to utilise the funds at their disposal.