§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, before your Lordships enter upon the consideration of the next Order I wish to put a Question to the noble Earl the Chancellor of the Duchy as to the position in which your Lordships find yourselves in respect to business. The next two Orders, both of which have Amendments on the Paper in respect of them, stand in front of the Government of India Bill. I think most of your Lordships have a feeling that the Government of India Bill has been treated with very scant respect in this House. When we reflect upon its enormous importance and the very important speech which, no doubt, the Under-Secretary for India is about to deliver, and the other speeches from other noble Lords on this subject, we must come to the conclusion that the time allowed us is very small.
I should like to ask the noble Earl what arrangement he proposes to make with respect to the subsequent course of the India Bill—whether he is going to take it at all to-night, in any case, whether he will take it as the first Order to-morrow, and whether the subsequent stages of the Bill will be treated with greater respect than the Second Reading stage. I refer to the Committee stage—a sinister rumour has reached me that it was proposed to take it after dinner in the middle of next week. I earnestly hope that is not true. I would remind the Government of the vast importance of this Bill, and I hope the Government will take that view of it also. I have no desire to suggest that the Under-Secretary should not deliver his speech tonight. I hope there will be proper time 932 for it, but we shall have great difficulty anyhow in getting through the Second Reading debate in the position in which business has now been placed.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)My Lords, I can assure the noble Marquess that the last thing the Government desire is to show disrespect to the great Dependency of India, or to your Lordships either. It did not occur to me that it was disrespectful to the House or to India to begin the Second Reading of this Bill to-night. This Bill, substantially in the form in which it is before your Lordships, was in the hands of the public many months ago. It has since been to a Joint Committee of the two Houses, which has made certain Amendments in the Bill, and I think the amended Bill has been in the hands of the public for three or four weeks. Certainly it did not occur to me that it was disrespectful to anybody to proceed with the Second Reading at the earliest possible moment.
As regards the two Bills preceding the Government of India Bill on the Order Paper, I understand from Lord Muir Mackenzie that he has reserved his observations for a later stage, and my impression is that these two Bills would not occupy more than a very few minutes. In that case I suggest that Lord Sinha should present the Bill on Second Reading—he will make an important and a considered speech—and that the further stage of the Second Reading should be proceeded with tomorrow.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYAs the first Order?
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDWell, there is a Bill which was on the Paper last night, the Ferries (Acquisition by Local Authorities) Bill, in the name of Lord Galway. Subject to that, I think the India Bill will be the first Order. I gave notice yesterday to your Lordships that I was going to propose that the House should meet at three o'clock to-morrow in order to give as much time as possible for the later stages of the Second Reading of the India Bill. As regards its Committee stage, it is, perhaps, rather premature to deal with that before the Second Reading debate has been begun; but Lord Curzon's idea was 933 that this should be taken on Tuesday next, if necessary after dinner.
I really must demur to the view that for the House of Lords to sit after dinner deserves the epithet of sinister, and in view of the fact that we have some important measures to come before us—notably that to which your Lordships devoted some attention a night or two ago, a Bill dealing with electricity, and also the Housing Bill—I hope that your Lordships will be prepared to sit after dinner next week, on three nights if necessary, in order to get through this business. Your Lordships can sit on Monday and Friday as well; but I must say that it seems to me that it is generally for the convenience of business that Bills should be taken after dinner as well as before dinner; otherwise I must say that the programme is rather larger than the House can be expected to encompass in the short period we have before dinner.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWEMy Lords, although there is indeed no question before the House, perhaps I may be allowed to say a word as it so happens that I think I am the only Peer in the House at this moment who has been for many years in charge of its business, and therefore I am quite able to sympathise with the difficulties in which His Majesty's Government may find themselves. It is quite true, and it has very often happened, that at these late periods of the session we are not always well treated by another place and a great congestion of business occurs here. But I cannot, while admitting all that, acquit His Majesty's Government of lacking, as I think, in proper respect to what is after all by far the most important measure that they could have to deal with during the whole period that they remain a Government, for however long that may last. From the Imperial point of view this measure is, as we all know, infinitely more important than any other with which His Majesty's Government can have to deal; and in those circumstances I cannot help thinking that it would have been possible to arrange that this most important measure should have been made the first Order on some day of the week.
The Bill which has just been considered is of great local importance, but I do not think that even my noble friends on those benches who are personally interested will be prepared to say that it compares 934 for a moment with the Bill which is shortly going to be introduced. Nor can I feel that the reply which the noble Earl has given regarding the proceedings in Committee can be considered as adequate. Very likely it may be necessary for your Lordships to sit after dinner next week. No one will make any complaint of that. But we all know what the sort of attendance after dinner in all parts of the House is, and the extremely important details of this measure will not, as I fear, receive the consideration which they ought to receive in Committee if this particular subject is relegated to the hours approaching midnight. I may remind the noble Earl—who seemed to think that it was a mere matter of course that this measure should be taken at seven o'clock—that a large number of visitors to the House, Indians and those interested in India, have come down to hear the debate, and have been sitting here in expectation of its beginning. In those circumstances I cannot help joining the noble Marquess in saying that I think it is a great misfortune that this most important measure has been treated in this way.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDIf Lord Crewe, as Leader of the Opposition, asks that this Bill shall be postponed until tomorrow I will, of course, acquiesce. My noble friend, however, is prepared to make his speech to-night.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWEI can answer that question at once. I consider it to be entirely a matter for my noble friend the Under-Secretary of State for India. It is purely a question for him whether he would prefer to make his speech to-night. We are all looking forward with the keenest interest to that speech, and, if my noble friend is good enough to make it, I am sure that his doing so would please all your Lordships.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORDThen I suggest that your Lordships continue with these two small Bills now, that Lord Sinha should then move the Second Reading of the Government of India Bill, and that the debate upon it should be taken after Lord Galway's Bill as second Order will be to-morrow.