§ After Clause 19, insert the following new clause:
§ Rates Advisory Committee.
§ —(l) For the purpose of giving advice and assistance to the Minister with respect to and for 948 safeguarding any interests affected by any directions as to rates, fares, tolls, dues, and other charges or special services, a committee shall be appointed consisting of six persons, one being an impartial person (who shall be chairman) nominated by the Railway and Canal Commission, two being representatives of trading interests nominated by the chairman for the time being of the Associated Chambers of Commerce, one being a representative of agricultural interests nominated by the chairman for the time being of the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and two being representatives of labour interests nominated by the chairman for the time being of the Parliamentary Committee of the Trades Union Congress together with, if deemed advisable, one additional member who may at the discretion of the Minister be nominated from time to time by him.
§ (2) Before directing any revision of any rates, fares, tolls, dues, or other charges, or of any special services, the Minister shall refer the matter to the committee for their advice, and they shall report thereon to him, and where such revision is for the purpose of an increase in the net revenue of any undertakings which the Minister determines to be necessary, the committee shall also advise as to the best methods of obtaining such increase from the different classes of traffic, having due regard to existing contracts and the fairness and adequacy of the methods proposed to be adopted. Before prescribing the limits of rates, tolls, or charges in connection with a new transport service established under section nine of this Act, the Minister shall refer the matter to the committee for their advice.
§ (3) The committee before reporting or advising on any matters referred to them under this section, shall, unless in their discretion they consider it unnecessary or undesirable to do so, give such public notice as they think best adapted for informing persons affected of the date when and the place where they will inquire into the matter, and any persons affected may make representations to the committee, and, unless in their-discretion the committee consider it unnecessary, shall be heard at such inquiry, and, if the committee in their discretion think fit, the whole or any part of the proceedings at such inquiry may be open to the public:
§ Provided that, for the purpose of this provision, the council of any city, borough, burgh, county, or district shall be deemed to be persons affected in any case where such council or any persons represented by them may be affected by any such proposed revision as aforesaid.
§ (4) The committee shall hear such witnesses and call for such documents and accounts as they think fit, and shall have power to take evidence on oath, and for that purpose any member of the committee may administer oaths.
§ (5) There shall be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament to all or any of the members of the committee such salaries or other remuneration as the Minister, with the consent of the Treasury, may determine.
§ (6) For the purposes of this section, specia services means the services mentioned in section five of the schedule to the orders relating to railway rates and charges, and in the corresponding sections of the schedules to the orders relating to canal tolls, rates and charges confirmed by various Acts passed in the years eighteen hundred 949 and ninety-one to eighteen hundred and ninety four.
§
The Commons agreed with this Amendment, but proposed the following Amendment:
In line 5 of the Amendment leave out from ("off") to ("together") in line 13, and insert ("five persons, one being a person of experience in the law (who shall be chairman) nominated by the Lord Chancellor, two being representatives of trading and agricultural interests nominated by the Board of Trade, one being a representative of transportation interests nominated by the Minister, one being a representative of labour interests nominated by the Minister of Labour").
§ The Lords disagreed with the Commons Amendment to their Amendment:
§
The Commons now propose to amend their Amendment with which the Lords have disagreed, as follows:
In line 7 of the Amendment, after ("Trade") insert ("after consultation with the interest concerned"), and in line 10 of the Amendment, at end insert ("after consultation with the interests concerned").
THE EARL OF LYTTONMy Lords, the Amendment of your Lordships which the Commons have refused to accept is that relating to the composition of the Rates Committee. The Commons have insisted on their Amendment, but have proposed a further Amendment thereto by inserting "trade" in line 7, and after "Labour" in line 9 the words "after consultation with the interests concerned." This Amendment was put in for the purpose of meeting the point raised by my noble friend Lord Emmott. I understand, however, that the words proposed by the Commons are considered too vague in character, and I therefore propose that the Lords agree with the Commons Amendment but propose a further Amendment thereto as follows: After "with" in the first Commons Amendment insert "the Associated Chambers of Commerce, the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and other;" and after "Labour" insert" after consultation with the Parliamentary Committee of the Trade Union Congress and other." The clause will then be as follows—
… five persons, one being a person of experience in the law (who shall be chairman) nominated by the Lord Chancellor, two being representatives of trading and agricultural interests nominated by the Board of Trade 'after consultation with the Associated Chambers of Commerce, the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and other interests concerned, one being a representative of transportation interests nominated by the Minister of Labour after 950 consultation with the Parliamentary Committee of the Trades Union Congress and other interests concerned.
§ Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the Said Amendment, but propose the following further Amendment thereto: After ("with") in the first. Commons Amendment, insert ("the Associated Chambers of Commerce, the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and other"); after ("with") in the second Commons Amendment, insert. ("the Parliamentary Committee of the Trades Union Congress and other").—(The Earl of Lytton.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, this Amendment is an attempt on the part of the Government to put into form something of the spirit of the Amendment suggested yesterday by my noble friend below the gangway. I do not know precisely what my noble friend who sits near me (Lord Midleton) will say in respect of it, but at any rate. I will merely say (as my noble friend is now in his place) that I ant extremely grateful to the noble Earl for having considered the point so carefully as he has done in having it put in the proposed form.
§ VISCOUNT MIDLETONI have had the advantage of seeing outside the words which the noble Earl proposes to insert. There is no question that we disagree in principle with the course the Government have taken. We want a democratic and not a bureaucratic nomination of this committee. We view with great suspicion in this Bill, as in a great many others, the tremendous extension of the bureaucratic power that has been made in the last fortnight or three weeks. Particularly have we suspicion of the manner in which the Government have appointed various committees, composed of men bearing distinguished names, whose recommendations have been entirely ignored. Those committees were there to advise the Ministers, but I can give instance after instance where their advice has been ignored completely; they have been told that their advice is confidential, and the public has lost the whole value of their work. That being so, we had hoped that the Government on this occasion, making so large a demand upon us with regard to this committee, would have consented to its being nominated outside. But, seeing the difference that has arisen between the two Houses on the question and the great importance that the Govern 951 ment attach to the matter, we feel that by the introduction of the proposed words there will at least be some security for the independence of the committee; therefore, I am sure that my noble friends on this side will agree with me that our only course is to assent to what the noble Earl has proposed.
§ On Question, Motion agreed to, and Bill returned to the Commons.