§ LORD ST. LEVAN rose to ask whether His Majesty's Government expect any assistance in providing working-class houses from private enterprise.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, yesterday the noble Earl, Lord Northbrook, asked a question in relation to the housing of the working classes in which allusion was made to the part that private enterprise would take in providing such houses. While the large schemes which are at present in contemplation throughout the country must for the most part, necessarily I think, be undertaken by public bodies, who will be assisted financially by public moneys, I think it may be assumed that any assistance towards providing the houses which are so urgently required would be welcomed. In the debate on the Housing Bill in another place last Monday the Minister in charge of the Bill agreed that it was the intention of the Government to encourage private enterprise in this matter. In the same debate it was stated by an hon. Member that public enterprise with regard to providing houses for the working classes was dead, having been killed. There is a great deal of truth in that statement, and it is quite obvious that if private enterprise has been killed it cannot, while it is defunct, furnish any assistance at all in the desired direction.
§ Therefore I think that it would be most useful if the Government could give some indication of the nature of the encouragement which, according to the Minister's statement, the Government contemplate giving to private enterprise. It must be borne in mind that private enterprise means not only the owners of the land which is to be built upon, but also a large class of persons, such as builders and those concerned in the building trade, who have been up to recent years employed in the industry of providing houses as they were required. I think, therefore, if we could have some indication of the nature of the assistance which the Government intend to give, it would enable private enterprise, represented by those persons and classes of whom I have spoken, to know where 301 they stand, and whether there is any prospect of their being able to resume operations.
§ LORD MONK BRETTON had the following Question on the Paper on the same subject—
§ To ask His Majesty's Government whether any special facilities for obtaining building materials will be given to individuals desirous of building working-class dwellings at their own expense; and whether such facilities will be equal to those to be afforded to local authorities.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, it might perhaps be convenient to the noble Lord, as I have a similar Question on the Paper to that of the noble Lord, Lord St. Levan, that I should ask it at the same time. My Question relates rather to the equipment of farms with buildings, and of houses, the number of which have fallen in arrear in consequence of the war and for other reasons. I hope that the noble Lord will be able to say that private enterprise is not to be discouraged. The Local Government Board circular of November last contemplated that the duties of public authorities as regards building may be reduced by private enterprise. In regard to materials the Local Government Board has issued a circular this year stating that certain articles of building material are to be standardised. Local authorities are to be furnished with their description, and there is to be a production of doors, window frames, and bricks suited to the needs of localities, and in fact the insurance of adequate supplies of bricks.
§ I hope that the noble Lord will be able to say that there are hopes for private enterprise from this store; and in saying that may I be allowed to add that I do not think there would be much difficulty to Government Departments in dealing with applications from private individuals for these materials. My own County Council, and I believe other County Councils, have been engaged in coordinating the needs of District Councils with regard to building materials so as to bring the needs of the whole county in so to speak one schedule. It will not be difficult for private individuals who require materials for this purpose to put their needs in with those of the District Council, and though I can hardly hope that the noble Lord will be able to consider such a sug- 302 gestion it may be that he might be able to convey it to the Department, and if they are, as they have said, in favour of private enterprise, they may be able to give the suggestion consideration when they come to deal with the matter.
§ VISCOUNT SANDHURSTMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord who spoke first that the Government would welcome any assistance of the kind that he suggested, but in what has been called the abnormal period after the war such an effort would be more of the nature of a philanthropic effort than one that could be made a commercial proposition owing to the very high prices that prevail at the present moment. Every Committee which has considered the housing of the working classes after the war has come to the conclusion that private enterprise cannot be relied upon, except to a very limited extent, in the period immediately after the war.
The noble Marquess opposite will remember that he was Chairman of a Committee which considered this subject, and I find in the Report of that Committee this sentence—
A direct subsidy from the State to the private builder appears impossible; such a subsidy would be regarded as a dole to the speculative builder or the ground landlord and as an encouragement to one only out of many equally important industries. It could, in any case, only be given if coupled with restrictions as to rent and selling price, which, in the case of the speculative builder at least, would defeat its object.The cost of building at the present time is admitted on all hands to be abnormally high. It is further anticipated by those who have made a study of the subject that present prices will fall, not indeed to the level of pre-war prices, but substantially below the present prices. In these circumstances private enterprise would naturally wait till prices have fallen, but the need for houses is such that we cannot afford to wait; therefore His Majesty's Government are looking to the local authorities and public utility societies to build in the present emergency.Having said that in regard to the discouragement which was feared by both noble Lords I should like to say this. At the same time the Government hope that private enterprise, which in the past has been responsible for some 95 per cent. of working-class houses, will re-enter the field when prices have reached the post-war normal level—I think that was suggested 303 to be seven years—and it will be their policy to secure that such rents are paid for the houses built, during the abnormal period, as will make a return to economic conditions in the building trade possible at the end of that period. This is a policy which has been strongly advocated by all the Committees which have considered this problem. I think I may include in that the Royal Commission on Scottish Housing and also what is known as the Hunter Report.
In the meantime the fact that private enterprise cannot be relied upon for any large contribution does not mean that private building firms will have no share in the work. On the contrary, the whole forces of the building industry must be mobilised if the problem is to be adequately dealt with, and, while circumstances may restrict the operations of private firms as speculative builders, their assistance will certainly be needed as contractors to the local authorities, and every encouragement will be given to them to come in in that capacity. The following extract on the subject by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Local Government Board, on the Second Reading of the Housing Bill, may be quoted in this connection—
I believe there has been a considerable amount of misunderstanding with regard to private building. We do not contemplate that all the 1,800 local authorities will set up a staff of builders, carpenters, architects, and surveyors. We shall ask the local authorities to use the present builders. We want to use all the present builders and their staff. We do not want them to come in as speculative builders, but as contractors. We want to use every builder we can.Then in regard to the Question of my noble friend Lord Monk Bretton, I have to say that the primary object of the Government's policy in placing orders for bricks and other building materials has been to stimulate production and to provide employment. But the impression which appears to obtain in some quarters, that the Government have requisitioned building materials to such an extent as to render it impossible for private orders to be placed, is entirely incorrect. It is regrettable that this impression should still prevail in spite of official statements to the contrary which have been made from time to time. In an answer given by the President of the Local Government Board to a question in the House of Commons on February 18 last, it was definitely stated that the intention of the Government was that a proportion of the output of the brick 304 fields should be available to supply the demands of the building industry for works outside the Government housing programme, and, further, that until the materials are required for the Government housing programme they should be available to meet the demands of the ordinary building industry.In an official statement issued in March it was made clear that the Government were anxious not only to do nothing to hamper the building industry, but to encourage it as much as possible. The orders which have been placed by the Government with brickmakers throughout the kingdom do not by any means exhaust the total capacities of the yards. In a good many cases the Government have, it is true, bought the total output of the yards, but this has been clone to keep the makers in funds and not to earmark the bricks for the housing schemes. Permission is given freely to the makers enabling them to dispose of Government stocks for all purposes. What applies to bricks applies also to other building material. It is hoped that the effect of the impetus given to the various industries by Government action will be that material which they could not otherwise have obtained will become available. If any other noble Lord interested in this question who is desirous of building cottages at his own expense and has difficulty in getting materials will be good enough to inform me, I will do my utmost to see that his efforts are forwarded.
§ VISCOUNT SANDHURSTFurther than that, if any noble Lord, being an intending buyer of material, finds that on application he has been refused sale, will let me know, the matter shall be fully investigated.
As Lord Monk Bretton mentioned bricks and other material which are used for building purposes, such as window frames and so on, perhaps it would interest him to know what the Government have done towards stimulating production in the building trade. Measures are being taken to provide 3,000,000,000 bricks this year, which should include a fair margin for ordinary building purposes. Measures are also being taken, by improving methods of production, to increase the output to 5,000,000,000 next year. Such articles as baths, coppers, sanitary ware, ranges, 305 and so on, are being standardised, so that they may be obtained from the manufacturers at the lowest possible prices. Private builders will get the benefit of the reduction of prices which standardisation should secure.
Before I read that short summary I endeavoured to give a reply to the two questions of my noble friends, but it is quite possible that I may have fallen short in one or two points, because the noble Lord opposite rather developed his Question beyond the actual matter on the Paper. If I have been a little obscure owing to only getting the Question very late this afternoon and he will be good enough to communicate with me, I shall be very glad to put myself at his disposal.
LORD ST. LEVANI am much obliged to my noble friend. My Question was in the nature of what may hereafter be termed an Asterisk Question; I wanted to get information from him. As a matter of fact I was not thinking so much of rural housing as of the development of land in the neighbourhood of towns. I understand that in the opinion of the Government the conditions will be such that there will not be an opportunity for private enterprise to take part in development in that direction for some seven years, but that after that time they hope that conditions will become more or less normal. I am much obliged to my noble friend. I think the information he has given will go a long way towards clearing the air and making all concerned aware of the actual position of affairs.