§ THE EARL OF MAYO had the following Questions on the Paper—
§ To ask His Majesty's Government—
- 1. If a German named Wichmann has anything to do with George Mann and Company, Leeds Tool Co, Henry-street, Gray's Inn-road, W.C. This company makes shells.
- 2. If a firm now trading as the Metal and General Agency, 5, Whittington-avenue, E.C., were not formerly Weager and Funck, and if James H. Weager is not trading under the name of the Metal and General Agency, this firm being of German orgin.
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, with regard to my first Question I am told that this firm is controlled by this German, and it is believed that he took up work at Leeds in order to avoid internment. Besides that, the Ministry of Munitions are perfectly aware of this action of this German. I do not quite see the object of the Government or the Ministry of Munitions employing Germans at-all, whether they have been naturalised or not. Is there any advantage in employing them? That is a question I should like to ask His Majesty's Government, because if there is any advantage in employing them let us be told so at once, and what is the advantage. I have brought up this subject before, and a great many people are very sick to hear that the Germans are employed in any way whatsoever, whether they are naturalised or unnaturalised.
§ With regard to the second Question this man Weager was formerly, I am told, Weager and Funck, and he is trading now as the Metal and General Agency, 5, Whittington-avenue, E.C. This is a firm which imports are into this country, and it would, of course, have full knowledge, or rather notice, of sailings sent to it. Besides this, the firm is of German origin. Again I ask, what is the object of allowing this firm to import are into this country, and to have knowledge of sailings? They have to have notice of their sailings and they can acquire knowledge which they can pass on to their German friends. I wish the Government would tell one exactly why these men are employed at all, why they are allowed to trade in any way. There are just as good Englishmen as Germans, and a great deal better, and we would much rather see them trading. I hope the Government will give some satisfactory answer to that, because the last answer was very unsatisfactory.
§ I wish now to allude to another matter about which there has been a mistake. I mentioned it on July 8. I have two letters from the Home Office with regard to a man Balled Dr. Wiensenground, Managing Director of the Power Plant Company at West Drayton. I believe he is still at work there. I stated that he had been in communication with Vogel's pump engineers, in Vienna, and that he had obtained blue prints from them It reads in Hansard as if he had sent blue prints to Vienna. I did not say anything of the sort, and if there is any mistake of that kind I beg to 770 withdraw it, because in consequence of that I have had letters practically accusing me of not being quite straightforward about the matter. He had the blue prints from Vienna through a German in America, and therefore I said that if he could do that with Vienna he could communicate with Germans. I beg to put the Questions which appear in my name on the Paper.
§ LORD SOMERLEYTONMy Lords, with regard to the last point raised by the noble Earl, I understand that the withdrawal he has just made will be noted. With regard to the Questions he has asked, I will endeavour to answer them both to the best of my ability. George Karl Heindrich Wichmann, who is a naturalised British subject of German origin, was naturalised in February, 1913, and he is connected both with George Mann and Company, Ltd., and the Leeds Tool and Manufacturing Company, Ltd. In George Mann and Company, Ltd., he holds 19,749 ordinary shares and 11,287 preference shares out of an issued capital of 30,000 ordinary shares and 36,550 preference shares. There are nine directors of the company, of whom Wichmann is one, the other eight being British-born subjects. As Wichmann is a British subject, although of German origin, the Board of Trade have no jurisdiction to deal with his interest in this company. I trust I made that Clear to the noble Earl. As he is a British subject, although of German origin, the Board of Trade have no jurisdiction to deal with his interest in the company. Of course, the powers of the Board of Trade, as the noble Earl knows, ate not supreme, but are limited by law, and the Board are not able to interfere in this case, Wichmann himself being a British subject. In the case of the Leeds Tool and Manufacturing Company, Ltd., Wichmann holds 1,000 shares out of an issued capital of 3,002 shares. He is a director of the company, his co-director being a British-born subject.
With regard to the second Question of the noble Earl, the business of the Metal and General Agency of 5, Whittington-avenue, E.C., was inspected by Order of the Ward of Trade in January last. The inspectors reported that the proprietors of the business were formerly J. G. H. Weager, a British subject, British-born, whose people have been British for generations, and J. F. Funck, a German subject; that the partnership was dissolved as from December 31, 1916; and that Funck remained in 771 the employ of the firm as chief clerk. Even if the partnership had not been dissolved the case would not have come within the provisions of the Trading with the Enemy Acts which enable the Board of Trade to order a business to be wound up or discontinued if it is carried on wholly or mainly for the benefit of or under the control of enemy subjects, inasmuch as the interest of Mr. Funck as partner in the business did not exceed the interest of Mr. Weager, the British partner. I trust that it is clear to the noble Earl. The powers of the Board of Trade are limited in this respect, and they have no further power to act. If any action is taken at all in a case of this sort, it could only be taken, as I understand it, through the Home Office. The Board of Trade jurisdiction ends and begins in the way I have already stated to the noble Earl. I trust that the noble Earl will understand that if my answer is not satisfactory to him, it is at any rate the fullest that it is in my power to give him.
§ LORD SYDENHAMMy Lords, the case which the noble Earl has brought forward is only one of a great many. I could name four or five of the same kind, in which the naturalized German does pretty much what he likes. And I think, the answer of the noble Lord really amounts to this—that we have not got, even now, nearly enough power to deal with these German firms, really German, though some of them are converted, under a sort of camouflage for the time being, into British firms. But we have not got nearly enough power to deal wit h them and to stop their proceedings in this country.
THE EARL OF MAYOIf the Government have decided to allow these men to go on earning money in this company—Wichmann is a Director of this Company, and Funck is camouflaged as a clerk to the company—if the Government insists on their acting in this way and doing that, what can we do? We can do nothing at all. I think it is Chief Justice Sankey's Committee which is the one that deals with interning aliens. I think the noble Lord said that the Board of Trade could not have anything to do with the matter. But is there no other body that could have 772 anything to do with the matter? Are these men to be allowed to go on making money in this country, as Germans, and doing the practical business of the company?
§ LORD SOMERLEYTONI trusted I was clear in my information, but I will repeat it, if I may. Where a company is in question, it is the Board of Trade who look after that; where it is Individuals, it is a question for the Home Office. In this instance these people are trading under the law of the land, and, this being so, the Board of Trade is not in a position to interfere in the matter. I will not state whether I sympathise with my noble friends, or not. I have stated the facts baldly, and I am sorry I can do no more.