§ Amendments reported (according to Order).
§ LORD SOUTHWARKMay I ask the noble Earl whether he will kindly reply to the question that I put to him last evening on which he promised to make a statement?
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)I have made inquiry on the subject to which my noble friend referred last night, and I think I can give him assurances to show that adequate scope for inquiry and for criticism will be provided before rules under this Bill come into effect. If he will rifer to Clause 15, subsection (2), of the Bill he will find that all rules made under this Act have to be laid before both Houses of Parliament. The procedure as to the laying of rules has been considered very carefully for many years with regard to education, and in this Bill the general procedure followed is that which applies to all statutory rules. Under this particular Bill the Rules Publication Act of 1893 is incorporated. That involves forty days notice being given before any rules can become effective. The rules must be published, facilities must be given for their examination, not only in Parliament but by the public and by persons such as those to whom Lord Southwark referred, who are themselves responsible for looking after these schools. So there is every opportunity to discuss and to criticise the rules. There is, it is true, a provision which allows in certain provisional cases—that is, where special cause for urgency exists—that the rules shall come into immediate operation. Of course, pending the completion of the full procedure prescribed under the Act, forty clear days notice has to be given in every case; and during those days your Lordships, or members of the other House of 94 Parliament, will have ample opportunities of suggesting amendments. Let me add one further point. There is nothing in the Bill which imposes upon bodies who are in charge of non-grant-aided schools any statutory obligations to insist upon any change in the constitution of their governing bodies, but, as I pointed out to your Lordships yesterday, in the event of those schools securing for their teachers considerable grants of public money, it will probably be found desirable in the public interest to enlarge their governing body and to introduce some outside elements in return for the conditions by which they receive public money.
§ LORD SOUTHWARKI am much obliged to the noble Earl for answering the question which I put to him, but I am not altogether satisfied with the answer contained in the last observations that he made regarding the governors not being compelled to have any addition to their governing body because they need not take the grant. The question that I asked was whether in the case of the schools which are inspected by the Board of Education, and recognised as being efficient, the Minister of Education ought not to have the power of saying that no further addition or alteration in the governing body is necessary. My point is that where a governing body is competent and is doing its work well and giving entire satisfaction to the Minister of Education it ought not to be interfered with. If a Minister of Education is not to have that power, then I ask that the rules which are to be laid before Parliament shall be so laid for a certain number of days in order that Parliament shall have an opportunity of discussing whether it is right and proper to interfere with the particular school or schools in the way suggested by the Rule.
§ LORD SOUTHWARKOtherwise we shall be handing ourselves over body and soul and spirit—
§ LORD SOUTHWARKI have had the honour of being a governor of several schools which received no state aid, but where it is very desirable that the teachers should receive some of the superannuation money. At the same time the governing 95 bodies of those schools do not wish an outside body to come in and interfere. I do not think that they would do any good. I was going to move—
§ LORD SOUTHWARKMay I not say what I would like to move?
§ LORD SOUTHWARKI will wait.
§ Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a and passed, and returned to the Commons.