§ Amendment reported (according to Order).
§
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY had on the Paper an Amendment to insert the following new subsection in Clause 5—
(2) This Act shall be construed with the Midwives Act, 1902 and 1918, and nothing in this Act or in the principal Act shall have effect so as to grant any powers or to impose any duties which are granted or imposed in the said Midwives Acts.
§ The noble Marquess said: My Lords, on the last stage of the Bill I called the attention of my noble friend opposite (Viscount Peel) to a possible cause of overlapping as between the midwives statutes and this Bill, and I put to him a question as to whether the government had considered that point. I have no doubt that he will be in a position to answer me this afternoon. The point is this. Recently there has been before this House the Midwives Bill Which we have passed and sent to another place, and that Bill (amending the principal Midwives Act), together with that Act makes certain provisions. Among other things the question of delegation is dealt with. Under the principal Midwives Act—the Act of 1902—there was a possibility of delegation by the county councils to the district councils, and in the new Bill your Lordships saw fit to repeal that power of delegation and make it impossible henceforward that delegation, which had been found to work exceedingly badly, should be allowed any more as between the county council and the district council.
§ Now comes this Bill, under which it appears that there would be power to deal with all midwives questions. There is no decision, so far as the Bill before us is concerned, as between the county council and the district council. On the contrary, unless I have made a mistake, it is quite open to the Local Government Board to authorise the district council to exercise the powers of the midwives legislation. This would evidently be inconsistent with the Bill which we have just passed; indeed, there is an obvious objection to having two Bills overlapping and dealing with the same point in a different sense. It seems quite clear that, as we are dealing with midwives legislation in another Bill, we ought to leave out of this Bill any power of dealing with midwives in so far as they are 7 dealt with in the other Bill. It seems to me an obvious matter of businesslike procedure, and all that my Amendment seeks to do is to withhold any powers from being used under this Bill which are to be used under the Midwives Bill.
§ Since I put the. Amendment on the Paper my attention has been called to the fact that the drafting is not perfect. This is not a matter of surprise to me, because I drafted it myself. An amended draft has been put into my hands. There is no difference in substance whatever, and I will read to your Lordships the form in which I propose to move it: "Nothing in this Act or in the principal Act shall have effect so as to grant any powers or to impose any duties which are granted or imposed in the Midwives Act 1902 or any Act amending that Act." I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Clause 5, page 3, after line 8, insert as a new subsection:
(2) "Nothing in this Act or in the principal Act shall have effect so as to grant any powers or to impose any duties which are granted or imposed in the Midwives Act, 1902, or any Act amending that Act."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
§ VISCOUNT PEELMy Lords, there are one or two technical objections to the Amendment of the noble Marquess, with which I will deal in a moment; but perhaps he would prefer that I should deal first with what I may call the substance of his Amendment. I think I can relieve the mind of the noble Marquess from anxiety that there is any sort of overlapping, or that any Amendment of this kind may be necessary. If he will cast his mind back to what the Midwives Act did, he will remember that it established certain local authorities, and the powers of those local authorities were to deal with the general question of midwives—to grant to them or to withdraw from them diplomas, and to see that only proper persons exercised those functions. There is nothing of that kind in this Bill. No doubt there are powers given to local authorities to supply midwives, but they can only supply a midwife approved by the Central Midwives Board, There is no question of delegating these powers. I understand that the noble Marquess is anxious because this measure may in some way alter the law as it may be settled when the other Bill becomes an Act, and that the smaller local authorities, not being able to have these powers dele- 8 gated to them under the Midwives Act, might regain that power under this Act.
§ The Marquess of SALISBURYThat is it.
§ VISCOUNT PEELI can reassure the noble Marquess on that point. There is no possibility under this Act of anything of the kind taking place. The two powers are distinct; one is supply, and the other is supervision. Even if the Local Government Board were so malevolently minded as some people think they are, they would not break the law, which is what they would have to do if they delegated these powers to the smaller local authorities. Perhaps in these circumstances the noble Marquess will not press his Amendment.
§ VISCOUNT HALDANEMy Lords, I think the noble Viscount is right. The real purpose of this Bill is to set up health committees. Just now there are health committees which exist in a good many places; for instance, in Westminster there is one which has flourished for the past eight years; there is another in St. Pancras, and yet another in another part of London. But there are whole regions where there are none. These committees look after the health of the children and of the mothers, and they take care that the proper medical attendance is available. They work in many cases, as I know from my own knowledge, with the hospitals. There is no reason at all why they should be working with the midwives as established under the Midwives Act. As the noble Viscount has said, these committees will exist for the purpose of seeing that there is adequate provision for the people of whom care has to be taken; and the real purpose is to secure that in every locality of England and Wales there should be set up a health committee in the proper place and under proper supervision which will enable care to be taken of young children and of actual and expectant mothers. I think the noble Viscount is quite warranted in saying that the two systems can exist side by side, and that there ought not to be any overlapping of any sort.
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYI may say that the error into which I fell was caused by some enthusiastic words contained in the speech of the noble Viscount on the Second Reading of this Bill, in which he claimed that they could deal 9 with the midwives question. But no doubt I did not rightly apprehend the limitation of the scope of his remarks. At any rate, I am perfectly satisfied with the assurance of the noble Viscount that the two Bills do not clash, and I shall not, of course, proceed with the Amendment.
§ VISCOUNT PEELMay I say, with the leave of the House, that I looked up an hour ago the statement which I made on the Second Reading, and I saw that I had been more cautious than I thought. In that sentence I did carefully limit the scope.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.