THE ESTATE OF INVERLIEVER.

HL Deb 10 July 1918 vol 30 cc744-9

The DUKE of BUCCLEUCH had the following Question on the Paper—

To ask His Majesty's Government what has been the annual and total expenditure by the Crown on the estate of Inverliever since its purchase in 1907; how much of that expenditure has been incurred in planting and replanting new ground; what is the total area of land so planted, and what number of plants have been used up to the present time; how has the total expenditure been apportioned under such heads as the, following: (1) fencing against cattle, sheep, and rabbits; (2) draining; (3) plants and planting; (4) beating up and establishing crop; (5) cleaning and bracken cutting; (6) nursery; (7) cost of clearing sheep; (8) general management and miscellaneous charges, etc.; and whether a detailed Annual Return will in future be made of all such expenditure; what has been the expenditure on permanent works such as buildings, cottages for married men, roads, etc.; what is the total valuation roll rental of the land planted and the valuation per acre; has there been any change in the valuation per acre of the woodlands since the estate was acquired by the Crown; what is the amount of rates and taxes paid in respect of the ownership and occupancy of the estate (1) on the planted area, and (2) on the remainder of the estate.

The noble Duke said: My Lords, in asking this Question, which I am afraid is somewhat complicated, I may say that it is not put from any view of criticism. This scheme at Inverliever was started, I think, about ten Years ago—in 1907. It is a most important development, and, to a certain extent, it is looked upon, I believe, as the start of a possible scheme of State afforestation. There is a great deal of interest taken in it, but it can really be of benefit to the nation only if these figures for which I am asking are made readily accessible to the public.

I believe that up to the present no figures have been given. I do not even know whether they have been asked for. I think your Lordships are under the impression that it would be absolutely essential to the security of the country that large areas should be planted in this way. The difficulty is to know really what the cost will be. There is a large number of enthusiasts very anxious to have the whole country planted, but always at someone else's expense. They invariably under-estimate the cost and take no notice of the difficulties, while, on the other side, they exaggerate the receipts. There is also the question of whether it should be undertaken by the State or by private enterprise. I think most, people now are of the opinion that it would be an advantage to the country if both methods were adopted, Whether this is so or not, it is desirable that the country, and those who wish to plant on their own account, should have all the information possible as to the cost that is likely to be incurred.

With regard to Inverliever, I believe that they had several failures there, but that does not in any way impair the value of the experiment, because the estate is situated in a district in which there is probably a large area of land suitable for planting, and it is quite well known and obvious to any one who has any experience in these matters that they are bound to have a certain number of failures in the first experiment. There are also many other difficulties which, I expect, will be found by the Woods and Forests authorities, that perhaps they did not realise when they first went into the scheme. They are fully realised by most private proprietors, though the public as a rule do not appreciate them. There is a further point, too. Many people look only at the cost of planting, and leave out the many other absolutely necessary works in the way of roads, houses, and matters of that kind, which are, of course, essential to any large scheme. In fact, I think the idea of planting held by many people is very much the same as that which some of the members of the Government have as regards the growing of corn. Apparently it is thought that to grow corn you only have to plough the land and automatically the crop appears. Similarly, many people think that only a few trees have to be placed in the ground and eventually there will be a magnificent forest.

I must apologise for asking for details, but I believe the noble Lord who is going to answer will be good enough to give them. There is one point to which I should like to draw your Lordships' attention. I cannot say for certain that it is correct, but I believe it to be correct. Time woodlands in the district were valued at 4s. per acre before the Woods and Forests Authority took up this scheme of planting, and I believe attempts had been made to got the valuation lowered as it was considered excessive, but without success. I am informed that, when the Crown took up this question, the value was immediately reduced from 4s. to 3s., and from 3s. to 1s.; that the valuation of the Crown woods has been put back to 3s. per acre, and that they pay rates only on a valuation of 1s. It is looked upon as an act of grace for the Crown to pay rates at all, but it is quite obvious, if anything is done on a large scale, it would he very serious for all the other ratepayers in the district if the Crown were only to pay one-third of what others are compelled to pay.

There is another point on which the noble Lord might give some information, and, that is the extent to which the area can be planted. Originally the whole area, I think, was considered to be plantable, but experience has shown that a good deal of the land cannot be planted. I hope, even if the returns show an excessive cost, it will not be thought that this is altogether against the experiment, because it is reasonable to suppose that experiments of this kind must be costly. At the same time it will probably be shown that the State, in the matter of afforestation as well as other matters, is not very economical in carrying out their work.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE (LORD CLINTON)

My Lords, I will endeavour to answer, as far as the information I have will enable me to do so, the Questions which the noble Duke has put. The estate of Inverliever was purchased in 1907, and the first accounts which can be placed before your Lordships are for the year 1908. The accounts of the estate are under three headings—capital, farms, and afforestation. The accounts are as follows—In 1908, capital, £25,341 19s. 6d.; farms, £5 4s. 4d.; afforestation. £69 14s. 9d.—total, £25,416 18s. 7d. In 1909, capital, £4,865 5s. 4d. ' farms, £444 18s. 2d.; afforestation, £1,879 19s. 8d.—total £7,190 3s. 2d. In 1910, capital, £198 6s. 8d.; farms, £1,565 4s. 5d., afforestation, £2,508 10s. 10d.—total, £1,272 1s. 11d. In 1911, capital, £17 19s. 6d., farms, £410 2s. 2d. afforestation, £1,731 14s. 11d.—total, £2,159 16s. 7d. In 1912, capital, £1,780 14s. 7d., farms. £375 6s. 2d.; afforestation. £2.779 12s. 2d.—total, £4,935 12s. 11d. In 1913, capital, £226 2s. 4d., farms, £395 16s. 11d., afforestation, £2,351 12s. 7d.—total, £2,973 11s. 10d. In 1914, capital, £240 3s. 8d.; farms, £2,993 11s. 1d.; afforestation, £1,361 10s. 9d.—total, £4,595 7s. 6d. In 1915, capital, £520 4s. 10d.; farms, £484 13s. 9d.; afforestation, £1,367 15s. 1d.—total, £2,372 13s. 8d. In 1916, capital, £40 3s. 4d., farms, £528 6s. 6d.; afforestation, £1,422 14s. 8d.—total, £1,991 4s. 6d. In 1917, capital, £311 5s. 4d.; farms. £872 0s. 9d.; afforestation, £1,389 8s. 7d,—total, £2,572 14s. 8d.; making a total for capital of £33,542 7s. 1d.; for farms, £8,075 4s. 3d.; and for afforestation, £16,862 14s.—a grand total of £58,480 5s. 4d.

The noble Duke asks how much of this expenditure has been incurred in planting and replanting new ground. I have one figure here which might answer the Question, and that is the actual cost of the plants purchased, and the actual cost of putting in the ground. I do not know whether it is what the noble Duke requires, but the figure is £2,899 12s. I have a larger figure which I imagine is probably what the noble Duke wants. It is really the cost of establishing the plantation, and would include fencing, cleaning, cutting the weeds, draining, and the expenses of the nursery. The total cost of that is £7,406, or equal to about £6 per acre planted. The noble Duke asks for "the total area planted, and the number of plants used up to the present time." The total area planted is 1,256 acres, and the total number of plants used is 3,483,000, or, roughly speaking, about 3,000 plants to the acre. In the course of his speech the noble Duke also asked for some idea of the amount of land which has been found suitable for planting. The total area of the estate is 12,684 acres, of which a total of 3,600 acres has been found, in our recent surveys, to be capable of afforestation. The remainder is suitable for grazing, a great deal is bog and rock, and there is also about 1,500 acres of good ground which we are keeping for farms and small holdings.

The next Question of the noble Duke relates to the total expenditure apportioned under the following heads. Fencing has cost £918 14s. 2d.; draining, £581 3s.; plants and planting, £2,044 1s. 5d.; beating up and establishing crop, £396 9s. 10d.; cleaning and bracken cutting after planting, £430 2s. 4d.; nursery, £3,033 11s. 10d. cost of clearing sheep, £3,975 3s. 4d., while the general management and miscellaneous charges are £4,502 12s. 10d. I should, perhaps, have told the noble Duke in my statement in regard to £6 per acre that the management charges are not included.

The next Question is about a detailed annual return. It is the intention to give detailed annual returns in the Annual Report of the Forestry branches of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Office of Woods which have been suspended during the war. Meanwhile a summary is prepared and published annually in the Report to Parliament of the Commissioner of Woods.

The expenditure on permanent works, such as buildings, cottages, roads, &c., is as follows:—Erection and improvement of buildings and cottages, for farms, £1,639; and for forest, £2,905. The expenditure on roads in the forest is £31. The total valuation rental roll of the land planted, including plantations in existence at the time of purchase, is £66 17s., and the valuation per acre is 1s. The following changes in the valuation per acre in the woodlands have taken place since the estate was acquired by the Crown:—Up to Whitsuntide. 1910, they were 4s. per acre; for two years up to Whitsuntide, 1912, 3s. per acre; subsequently, 1s. per acre. I have no information in regard to the noble Duke's statement that since that date they have been raised above 1s. As to the amount of rates and taxes paid, the following donations in lieu of rates have been paid by the Crown up to March 31, 1918, in respect of the ownerships and occupancy of the estate:—On the planted area, £21 18s. 9d.; on the remainder of the estate, £220. If the noble Duke wants any further information I shall be glad to get it for him, and I shall be happy to hand him a statement showing the figures from which I have been quoting.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH

My Lords, I should like to thank my noble friend for the Return that he has given. I am sure it will be very much appreciated, especially in Scotland; and if he will give me a copy of the figures, as they are rather difficult to follow in debate, I shall be much obliged.

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

If the noble Lord would also add information as to whether the valuation of the surrounding land belonging to private owners remains as it was while the Crown land has been reduced, and why, it would be welcome.

LORD CLINTON

Certainly.