HL Deb 23 October 1917 vol 26 cc739-42

EARL RUSSELL rose to ask whether His Majesty's Government would make a statement on the questions at issue in the present taxi-cab dispute, and indicate their policy with regard to the admission of women to the ranks of licensed cab drivers.

The noble Earl said: My Lords, I think no apology is required for putting down the second Question which appears in my name, because, this is a matter of considerable personal interest to all those in London who have any duties to discharge, particularly now that there is increasing difficulty in making use of any conveyance of one's own for the purpose of getting about. The notices which have appeared in the newspapers make it rather difficult to follow exactly what the points involved are. All I desire to do this afternoon is to elicit a statement from His Majesty's Government as to what exactly the questions at issue are in the dispute which has arisen, what the reasons are for the particular course that has been taken, and what considerations weighed with them one way or another. I have no sympathy, and I do not think your Lordships will have any, with the person who desires nowadays to take a taxi-cab for an extended journey. That is quite unnecessary. There are trains and tubes and other methods of making the longer journeys. But I think we are all agreed that for short journeys taxi-cabs are essential if we are to carry on our business in London. I do not, of course, think only of public business, such as attending this House, or attending the various Departments of State, because almost all of us know that what was called private business before the war now really consists of making or doing something or other that is required by one Department or another for the prosecution of the war. Practically, you may say, there is no business except what is needed for the war, and it is important that we should retain some convenient method of getting about London for short distances.

I do not think we need complain if the prices are increased. The price of everything has been raised, and we may well expect that the price for journeys such as these should be raised. I do not suggest that to take a taxi-cab at all is not to some extent in the nature of a luxury nowadays, for which a man may fitly be asked to pay; and in view of that I should like to ask what the particular objection has been to the adoption of the shilling for each mile, as against, as I understand, the present proposal—1s. 2d. for the first mile and 8d. a mile afterwards. It seems to me that no injustice, but rather an advantage, would result if you penalise the person who takes a taxi-cab for long journeys. Not so long ago it was a frequent practice—I think most noble Lords would be acquainted with it—for officers to take taxi-cabs to return to their depôts at night, say, at Hounslow or anywhere within eight or fifteen miles. That is not really a proper use of the taxi-cab. Probably under the present petrol allowance it is impossible, but I think we should be entitled to discourage anything of that sort, which may interfere with what is almost an essential in London to the swift conduct of business by those who have important affairs to attend to.

I should be glad if the noble Lord could state what exactly is the attitude of the men, what their average earnings are, what they have to complain of in the way of average earnings, and what the issues are in the dispute. I have seen in the newspapers that an average of eighteen journeys a day is taken as a sort of basis on which one calculates. I suppose that is limited simply and solely by the two gallons which the drivers are allowed. Judging by the rapidity with which a cab is engaged the moment it is discharged, I should have thought that something like thirty journeys a day was nearer the average in the centre of London. I simply ask for information on the point. I should like also to ask whether it is not thought desirable to admit women into the ranks of licensed cab-drivers. I understand that there has been some opposition on the part of the Police, and I should be glad if that matter could be considered.

VISCOUNT SANDHURST

My Lords, I am afraid I cannot follow the noble Earl throughout the whole of his remarks, for I have not the necessary information with me. I will, however, make further inquiries in the direction he has indicated, and if, when he sees Hansard, he thinks that what I have said is insufficient and will put down the Question again, I shall be glad to give him fuller information. This matter has been going on since the month of January. The original demand of the owners was for a bonus of fourpence. This was objected to by the drivers. This would have brought the charge for the first mile up to a shilling. There were interviews at the Home Office, and the Home Secretary suggested that the matter should be referred to Conciliation Boards, but this was refused by the drivers. The Secretary of State had the books of the companies examined by a well-known gentleman, Sir William Plender, and it was considered that the fourpence bonus was fully justified. The Secretary of State proposed to make an Order accordingly.

Then, in the month of September, the owners and drivers organised to demand a rise of 50 per cent. The Home Secretary had further interviews, and satisfied himself that such an increase could not be justified. It would impose a burden on the public of about £1,000,000 in the aggregate. The bonus of sixpence, which was suggested, would cost the taxi-riding public about £650,000. That would work out in this way. It would not be a case of 1s. 2d. for the first mile and 8d. a mile afterwards, as suggested by the noble Earl. It is true that the first charge of 8d. would be raised to 1s. 2d., but equally if the taxi-clock registered 2s. the fare would be 2s. 6d., so that it was really in the nature of a sixpenny bonus. This was agreed to by the owners and by the owner-drivers. The drivers have not agreed, but the question with them is their agreement with the owners.

To the latter part of the Question, in which the noble Earl asks whether we would indicate a policy in regard to the admission of women to the ranks of licensed cab-drivers, the answer is that licences are issued to such women as apply and are found to be qualified. So far, only one woman has qualified, and a licence has been issued to her. The Home Office are, of course, only concerned with the issue of licences and cannot ensure that a licensed person will obtain employment.

House adjourned at twelve minutes past five o'clock.