HL Deb 26 July 1917 vol 26 cc46-8

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Earl of Crawford.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clause 1 agreed to

Clause 2:

2.—(1) The Minister of Pensions shall as soon as may be after the passing of this Act constitute for the purposes of this Act a committee, which shall be known as the special grants committee and shall consist of such number of persons, not being more than ten, as the Minister shall determine.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL (THE EARL OF CRAWFORD)

I move an Amendment in subsection (1) of Clause 2, to leave out "ten" and insert "twelve." This enlarges the membership of the Special Grants Committee from ten to twelve.

Amendment moved— Clause 2, page 3, line 9, leave out (" ten ") and insert (" twelve ").—(The Earl of Crawford.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3:

(2) Out of the funds belonging to the Statutory Committee derived from or representing money provided by Parliament, there shall be transferred to a special account to be opened for the purpose at the Bank of England to be called "the Ministry of Pensions (Special Grants) Account" (herein-after referred to as "the special grants account") the sum of five hundred thousand pounds, and the balance of such funds shall be paid into the Exchequer.

THE EARL OF CRAWFORD

I move to amend subsection (2) of Clause 3 by leaving out "at the Bank of England" and inserting" in accordance with directions to be given by the Treasury." The marginal note to Clause 3 is "Transfer of staff and funds." This Amendment does affect the question of funds, but not in a money but only in an administrative sense. Instead of stating in the Act of Parliament that money which belongs to the Statutory Committee should be placed at the Bank of England, it is suggested that it should be placed in accordance with directions given by the Treasury. As it is wholly an administrative point, I think the Amendment is one which in this House we are fully entitled to insert.

Amendment moved— Clause 3, page 3, line 10, leave out (" at the Bank of England ") and insert (" in accordance with directions to be given by the Treasury ").—(The Earl of Crawford.)

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

My Lords, I do not rise to make any objection to the Amendment which has just been moved by the noble Earl; indeed, the contrary. The Amendment, as the noble Earl has pointed out, is no doubt administrative in its force rather than financial, but still it is possible that in another place such an Amendment might be regarded by some as contravening the privilege of that House. I only rise to express the hope—founded on the fact that this change in the Bill is intrinsically desirable and for the benefit of the public—that if such a view is taken by the authorities or by the House at large in another place, they will repeat the action which they have sometimes taken on former occasions and waive their privilege on the ground of the definite merits attaching to the proposal of the noble Earl.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4:

(2) Payments out of and into the special grants account shall be made, and all other matters relating to the account and to the money standing to the credit of the account, shall be regulated in such manner as the Treasury direct.

THE EARL OF CRAWFORD moved to amend subsection (2) of Clause 4, after the word "account" (where it last appears), by inserting "including the investment of any such money." The noble Earl said: This is another Amendment of the character to which the noble Marquess has just alluded. It is to give power to the Pensions Ministry and the Special Committee to invest money at their disposal. It is true that it does touch money, but the money belonging to the State will be increased if this power is granted; and subject to the note of warning which the noble Marquess has just uttered, I submit this Amendment to the favourable consideration of your Lordships. I believe, indeed, that no objection will in point of fact be taken to it in another place. It is probably more convenient that an amendment should be made here than that both Houses of Parliament should have to pass an Amending Bill at a subsequent stage.

Amendment moved— Clause 4, page 3, line 27, after (" account ") insert (" including the investment of any such money ").—(The Earl of Crawford.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clause agreed to.

The Report of Amendments to be received on Tuesday next, and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 86.)