Lords Sitting of 5 December 1917

HEALTH OF MUNITION WORKERS.
LORD SYDENHAM LORD SYDENHAM had the following Question on the Paper—
To ask His Majesty's Government whether they can now state what steps have been taken to carry out the recommendations of the Health of Munition Workers Committee, and how the position now stands as regards

1. The limitation of the hours of work of men, women, boys, and girls;

2. Sunday labour; and

3. Labour before breakfast.

The noble Lord said: My Lords. I hope that the national importance of this subject will justify me in raising it, I think for the fifth time, in your Lordships' House. When the other day we had an interesting discussion upon industrial unrest, I do not think that over-fatigue was taken into such full account as it ought to have been. There is nothing more certain than that an excess of weariness produces irritability, which shows itself in many ways, and may even show itself among legislative bodies.
The appointment of a Health of Munition Workers Committee by Mr. Lloyd George in 1915 has resulted in the most careful scientific investigations, which have thrown a flood of new light upon the economics of industrial effort. That Committee has now issued twenty Reports, which are full of most valuable information that ought to be turned to account, not only now but in the years to come. It has been made quite clear that fatigue is cumulative in its effect, and that it follows certain laws which were, not known before. Human energy requires to be renewed, not by food only, but by rest within limited periods, and if that renewal does not take place there is a debit balance which goes on steadily increasing and produces failure of energy and therefore a falling off of production, which leads to ill-health and may ultimately lead to the disablement of the worker.
In a war which has lasted nearly three and a-half years the long hours of labour which were possible for a short time have become, or may become, dangerously excessive; and, besides that, the conditions have very much changed. Within the last
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year or year and a-half many of our youngest and strongest workers have been withdrawn from munitions work to join the Colours, and a very large number of women are now employed on a scale unprecedented, and on work which, before the war, was believed to be far beyond their powers. These conditions, acting together, have certainly tended to throw increased strain upon the workers as a whole, and there is, I think, plain evidence that this strain is telling very heavily.
Mr. Barnes, in his Summary of the Reports of the Committees on Industrial Unrest, pointed out that "there is a general consensus of opinion that Sunday and overtime labour should be reduced to a minimum, that holidays should not be curtailed, and that hours of work should not be such as to exclude opportunities for recreation and amusement." The Question that I have put on the Paper is directed to ascertain whether those principles are now being observed in our great munitions works, and whether the facts and figures which have been brought to light have led to the action which they certainly demand.
It is remarkable that the Health of Munition Workers Committee has been forced by experience to change its views very considerably. In its Fifth Report, which was issued in June, 1916, it laid down as a maximum limit 65 to 67 hours per week per man and 60 hours for women, and it also said that work at night for girls under eighteen should be restricted as far as possible; but in its last Report—the twentieth—issued in October, it said plainly that these standards were now quite inapplicable, for the reasons I have given. Dr. Vernon's investigations prove that men on heavy work in 66·7 nominal working hours produced an output of 100, and in 56·5 working hours an output of 122. The output was increased by nearly 25 per cent. by the shorter hours work. Women on heavy lathe work produced as good an output in 50 hours as in 66, and a considerably better output than in 77 hours. The actual hours worked are, of course, considerably less than the nominal hours, because of the great amount of lost time arising principally from over-fatigue. The Committee state that the data which they have brought together show that the reduction in the weekly hours of actual work, varying from 10 to 20 hours, in no case resulted

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in more than an insignificant diminution of total output, while on the average it produced a substantial total increase, These figures prove beyond all doubt that long hours are not only inhuman but actually decrease the output of the worker. I understand that the Hours of Labour Committee of the Munitions Ministry has recently recommended a very substantial reduction of hours, and has also recommended that night work for girls under eighteen should be put a stop to altogether. I ask whether these recommendations have been carried our, and what limits have now been fixed for the duration of working hours.
When I raised the question of Sunday labour in your Lordships' House in 1916, the noble Lord who replied said that 60 per cent. of the firms engaged on munitions were then doing no Sunday work at all, and that all the rest were gradually coming into line. I hope that he will now be able to say that all the rest of those firms have come into line, and that no work is being done, on Sunday other than continuation work which cannot he helped or repairs to machinery which are necessary; or, if that cannot he accomplished, that at least every worker has one day's rest in seven.
I raised the question of work before breakfast almost exactly two years ago. The investigations of Dr. Loveday have shown that when no work was done before breakfast move hours were actually worked. The reason for that is this, that the amount of time lost before breakfast may be so great as to cause disorganisation in a factory, and, further, that most of the workers cannot do their best work before they have had their morning meal. I now ask what has been done to diminish work before breakfast; and I wish to point out that if the hours of work are substantially diminished, it is much easier to make that most salutary change. I am quite sure that the Ministry of Munitions realises its very heavy responsibilities in these respects, but I am not quite certain that it is moving fast enough to check the accumulating fatigue which the long prolongation of the war has entailed.
I have seen some statements which I am not at liberty to quote, but which are to my mind very disquieting, because they indicate that the workers are suffering severely from the effect of too long hours, and I have no doubt whatever that the unrest and irritability which we see among them are largely due to that cause. I
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earnestly hope that the answer to the Question that I have put upon the Paper will show beyond all doubt that serious defects of this kind are being promptly remedied in all the controlled establishments under the Ministry of Munitions. It must surely be a matter of supreme national importance that the conditions of labour should be, placed upon a basis which guarantees as far as possible the health of our workers, because upon those workers depends the supply of munitions to our Fleets and Armies, and therefore to a very large extent the victory of our arms in this war.
LORD ELPHINSTONE: My Lords, the importance of the subject that has been raised to-day by the noble Lord is, I think, universally recognised, and I am personally grateful to him for having brought it forward once again, as it enables me to assure your Lordships that the Ministry of Munitions is fully alive to the importance of this question, and it also gives me the opportunity of, as I hope, demonstrating that immense progress has been made and is being made every day on the lines indicated by the Committee to which the noble Lord referred.
I think it will probably be most convenient if I deal with the different points in the order in which the noble Lord raises them in his Question. First, he asks generally what steps have been taken to carry out the recommendations of the Health of Munition Workers Committee. Early in 1916 a section was established at the Ministry of Munitions known as the Welfare and Health Section, and through its organisation, which exists in every industrial area, the attention of factory managers is constantly drawn to the recommendations made by the Committee, and there is also power to give financial approval to any expenditure entailed in providing the necessary accommodation. To show your Lordships the sort of subjects with which this Welfare and Health Section deal, I might mention that they visit all factories and every establishment where munition work is carried on, and report to London on the conditions that they find as regards the labour in those factories. They also obtain the introduction into factories of welfare supervisors; they recommend the provision of accommodation, such as washing accommodation, cloak-rooms, rest rooms, and that sort of thing; and they also meet at the stations

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any workers who are drafted into a now area and distribute them among their lodgings. They help to improve transport facilities to and from the work; they set on foot many schemes of healthy recreation; they develop benevolent schemes; they inspect hostels, and pursue inquiries into all matters affecting the health of munition workers. This shows what a wide field is covered by the activities of the Welfare and Health Section of the Ministry of Munitions.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: Are there women on it, as well as men?
LORD ELPHINSTONE: I am afraid I cannot answer that.
LORD SYDENHAM: Yes.
LORD ELPHINSTONE: Coming now to the first point raised by the noble Lord—namely, the limitation of hours of work I do not think it will be denied by anybody in this country that hours of work beyond a certain point really defeat their own object, they are distinctly uneconomical, and do not result in any corresponding increase of output-which, after all, is the main consideration of the Ministry of Munitions. As regards hours of work for men, they are, as the noble Lord knows, not regulated by the Factory Acts, nor indeed by any other Statute. The possibility of laying-down some statutory limit in the case of men employed in munition works is under consideration by the Ministry of Munitions, but I should like to point out that the difficulties here are really immense. The recommendations of the Health of Munition Workers Committee in regard to hours of work have been by the Ministry of Munitions, brought to the notice of all firms concerned: and in any case brought to the Ministry's notice, through their inspectors or any other channel, in which the hours worked by men appear unduly long, steps are at once taken and the undesirability of such long hours is pointed out to the firm in question, and I am glad to say that those recommendations are not made in vain.
As regards women and boys and girls, their hours of work are regulated by the Factory Acts or by a General Order which was made in September, 1916, by the Home Secretary, so framed and designed as to carry out the recommendations of the Health of Munition Workers Committee.
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Unless the noble Lord specially wishes it, I will not say what all the details of that Order are, although I could if so desired. Very few exceptions are made to this Order; and the majority of those exceptions do not allow any longer hours than are permitted by the General Order, but they allow some re-adjustment or rearrangement of those hours to meet any special circumstances in any particular factory. In a certain number of cases it is found necessary from time to time to allow longer hours of work for a short period in order to increase the output of munitions of any vital urgency, but the circumstances of each case are always most carefully inquired into, and the urgency of the work is verified before the extension of hours is granted by the Home Office.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: Could the noble Lord tell us what the standard number of hours for women and boys is under the Home Office Order?
LORD ELPHINSTONE: Women and boys over sixteen years of age may be employed in 12-hour shifts up to a maximum of 60 hours per week.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: A maximum shift of 12 hours, and a maximum number of hours per week of 60?
LORD ELPHINSTONE: Yes. The Health of Munition Workers Committee have recently published another Report, Number 20, which revises to some extent their previous recommendations, and the-question is now before the Ministry of amending the General Order so as to give effect to those recommendations. I am afraid I cannot give any specific detail, but the sort of questions now being most carefully considered and on which it is hoped that action will shortly be taken are such as these—whether or not girls or boys below the ages of eighteen and sixteen respectively should be employed on night work at all; and whether it is possible that the maximum weekly total of 60 hours at present allowed under the General Order might not be reduced to 55 hours in the case, at any rate, of women engaged in heavy work. Those are the sort of questions which are now being considered in view of Report Number 20, In this connection I might, perhaps, mention that with a view to furthering the

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general policy of shortening hours it is hoped shortly to introduce an experimental reduction of hours in a few of the Government national factories. The week would then consist of 50 hours work, commencing only after breakfast and with an interval of an hour in the middle of the day for meals. Should this experiment, if carried out, prove a success, it will then be possible to see how far the reduction of hours in all controlled establishments on those lines can take place.
The next question which the noble Lord raised, is that of, Sunday labour. I am afraid I must say at the outset that it is Found absolutely impossible to prohibit Sunday labour all over the country. The recommendations of the Health of Munition Workers Committee in this respect were brought before the notice of every controlled establishment by a letter of the Ministry of Munitions last April, which requested firms to stop Sunday labour except for repair work and other work of particular urgency. As regards women and boys and girls, the general rule laid down by the Home Office is that they shall not be employed on Sundays. This rule is not departed from save in very exceptional circummstances—such as one or two which I think the noble Lord himself, mentioned, where front their nature the processes must necessarily be carried on continuously, and in those eases a system of relief shifts is always organised—or on the recommendation of the Ministry of Munitions in respect of particular factories engaged on vitally important work at the moment In those cases Sunday employment is sanctioned only on condition that every woman and young person employed on Sunday shall be given a day off instead of that Sunday in the same week. In the few cases where this is not practicable, Sunday work is permitted for short periods only and subject to certain safeguards, as, for example, that a short day only shall be worked, and that no individual shall be employed on more than one Sunday out of every three, and in some cases out of every four. These cases are constantly under review with a view to withdrawing or modifying the permit if circumstances allow. I think I can safely say that Sunday work, certainly for women and boys and girls, is quite the exception and not the general rule. It may be of interest to the House if I give certain figures showing the very satisfactory diminution which is taking place all over the country in regard to Sunday work. A
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special Report was prepared in August last, and the figures there show that the proportion of men who work on Sundays had been reduced since August 1916 from. 68 per cent. to 26 per cent., and of women from 33 per cent. to 6 per cent. I trust the noble Lord will think that this is a very satisfactory indication that Sunday labour is certainly diminishing throughout, the country.
Lastly the noble Lord asked about work before breakfast. This is an extraordinarily difficult question, although at first sight it might not seem so, and the Health of Munition Workers Committee have not put forward any definite recommendations on the point. Owing to the widely differing circumstances and customs in different localities, I do not think that it would be practicable to lay down any general rule for the whole country. Such a rule would certainly cause considerable dislocation in a large majority of munition works, and would, I think, give rise to grave dissatisfaction amongst a large number of the employees. But I would like to add that the Ministry of Munitions is strongly disposed to favour the introduction of what I believe is called the "one break day system" in all cases where it can be brought about by agreement between employers and employed. This would mean that the workers would begin work after breakfast and have one break for the mid-day meal, and then go on until the day's work was over. In certain localities strong objection is taken by the workers to any arrangement which precludes before-breakfast work. It is felt, therefore, that it would be very undesirable that any definite steps should be hastily taken by the Ministry, although, as I have pointed out, in every case where it is possible the Ministry of Munitions are doing all that lies in their power to further the abolition of before-breakfast labour.
I trust that the noble Lord who raised this question will consider that the answers I have been able to give to him are satisfactory as far as they go. If, however, there is any further point that I have not alluded to on which he would like information, I shall be very glad indeed to obtain it.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: My Lords, the noble Lord has made a very interesting statement. Evidently the Ministry of Munitions are feeling their way in this matter, and have recovered from that first

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patriotic rush to work all day and every day which, however admirable in its motive, was really unscientific and uneconomic. I was particularly glad to learn that the present conditions and standards were again under review, and that the Minister was not satisfied that he had accomplished all that could be done to improve at the same time the health of the munition workers and to increase the output. It is obvious that the investigations of the Ministry of Munitions, together with their experience, have a value far beyond that of the present war. It may be in their power to establish, on the grounds of experience, a relation between hours and output which may be of the greatest value in the future. When the noble Lord, in answer to my interjected question, told me what was the present standard for women and young persons, I could not help thinking that a twelve-hour shift is a tremendous strain on a boy of under sixteen, and, indeed, on any woman.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: Maximum shift.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: Yes. But a possible shift of twelve hours does seem to me to be a tremendous strain on a woman or on a boy.
LORD ELPHINSTONE: I think I said it was for women and boys over sixteen years of age.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: I suppose that is between the ages of sixteen and twenty-one. I think that is quite enough for a boy of that age—too much in fact—and too much for a woman. I am sure this is not done with the sanction of the Minister of Munitions if it can be avoided. I am very glad that he is looking into this standpoint, because it is impossible for me to believe that such a shift, frequently repeated, can do otherwise than injure the health of a woman, nor do I believe that she can achieve her maximum output under such conditions.
The noble Lord gave us very satisfactory assurances about Sunday labour. I understood him to say that this class of labour had been reduced far below the original figure, to comparatively small proportions; that it was only allowed to recur once in three or four Sundays: and that whenever it did happen a full day's rest was given on some week-day. The noble Lord, however,
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said nothing about holidays, a subject which I have previously mentioned in your Lordships' House. This matter was not raised in the Question put by Lord Sydenham, and I do not know whether my noble friend can answer me now; but I should be greatly interested to hear what periodic holiday is arranged for these munition workers, altogether apart from their one day's rest a week—what annual or occasional holiday is arranged for I am firmly convinced that in many of these cases the strained relations, the condition of tension, is really due to over-strain of nerves and to over-fatigue of body. I believe that in the interests of industrial peace and of increased output it would be much wiser to err on the side of giving the workers too many holidays rather than too few. If your Lordships consider what the strain has been on some of these people for the past three and a-half years you will appreciate that it is something of which we have had no experience ourselves, and I should not think that it has ever been experienced before since the institution of modern industrialism. Therefore I seriously commend to the attention of the Minister the problem of sufficient holidays for munition workers altogether apart from the weekly rest.
THE EARL OF STAIR: My Lords, as I am ignorant of the procedure of your Lordships' House, I do not know whether I am in order in raising this small point. But while there is always talk about giving holidays to munition workers, it seems to me that there is a very large source of labour supply in this country which is at present untouched—namely, the German prisoners. Our men who are prisoners in Germany are being employed in munition factories for no pay, with no consideration for their health, or for their welfare, or for holidays, or, indeed, for anything else. I should like to know whether there is any prospect of the German prisoners in this country being made to work under exactly the same conditions as obtain in Germany with respect to our men imprisoned there.
VISCOUNT HALDANE: My Lords, before the noble Lord replies there is one question which I would like to ask him, though it is, perhaps, one which he cannot answer at present. He referred to what is a very valuable point in the system—namely, the institution of supervisors. That is the beginning only of what I am sure is going

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to be a very large movement as soon as the continuation school system is introduced. What is done should be done very carefully, and, I think, with a view to what will have to be done afterwards when the Board of Education is in possession of the field, assuming that Mr. Fisher's Bill is passed. The work of these supervisors is most, important. They look after the boy and girl, and not only see after their welfare but also that they are being, as far as possible, guided into a right course as regards the future—I mean that they are taught to look out for subsequent employment and to fit themselves for the kind of work they are to do, I am not sure that the noble Lord is in a position to say much more about what is being actually done, but it would, be a great pleasure to hear that the institution of these supervisors has been taken very seriously, and as what it will be—an example to be followed when the continuation system comes into force.
LORD ELPIHINSTONE: My Lords, in reply to the point that was raised by the noble Earl (Lord Selborne) as regards the ordinary district holidays, I think I am correct in saying that the policy of the Ministry of Munitions is that all local holidays shall be observed in the area wherever munition works are; but I should like to verify the point and make absolutely certain. I am nearly sure that the ordinary local holidays are observed in munition works.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: Does the noble Lord mean something beyond Bank Holidays?
LORD ELPHINSTONE: Yes: the ordinary annual holidays in the district. I think it is so, but I will find out. On the, point raised by Lord Stair as to using German prisoners, I am afraid that I am not in a posit ion to give him any information, as that matter is entirely outside the Department of the Ministry of Munitions. I am also afraid that I can give no further information to the noble and learned Viscount, Lord Haldane, with regard to the supervisors.
LORD SYDENHAM: My Lords. I beg to thank the noble Lord for his interesting reply to my Question. It shows that there has been progress, move especially as regards Sunday labour, but I do not think- the progress has been as fast as it-might have been, or that we have quite got the best out of the investigations that have taken place with regard to such labour. I agree with the noble Karl, Lord Selborne, that twelve hours are too long as working hours for women, and I think the investigations that have already taken place prove that they are too long, and that with shorter hours women would be able to produce a greater output. The noble Lord said that it; was, perhaps, in contemplation that there, should be some legislative limit for working hours. If sufficient powers are not possessed by the Ministry at the present time to ensure such limits as their health advisors say ought to be laid down. I think it would be advantageous that statutory powers should be obtained.
House adjourned at five minutes past five o'clock.