§ THE CORN PRODUCTION BILL.
§ VISCOUNT CHAPLINMy Lords, I feel compelled, in the absence of the noble Earl the Leader of the House, to put a question to my noble friend the Lord Privy Seal with regard to business. I understand that it is proposed to take the Second Reading of the Corn Production Bill to-morrow. I wish to raise my voice very respectfully in protest against any proceeding of that kind. The Corn Production Bill is one of the most important measures that I remember in Parliament for many years; it is certainly full of strong and remarkable proposals, and it has not yet passed through the other House. My recollection of the House of Commons is that a Bill of that kind cannot pass the Report stage—the stage at present being considered there—and Third Reading on the same day, except by the consent of the House; and knowing, as I do, what the feeling of a great many members of the House of Commons is about this Bill in its present condition, I shall be surprised if that is at all likely to happen. But whether it does happen or not, of this I am quite convinced—that to press the Second Reading of the Bill here to-morrow against any considerable feeling, or against any feeling, manifested in this House would be showing a great want of consideration for this Assembly. There is no vital importance in passing the Corn Production Bill this week or next week, unless it is for the convenience of members of both Houses of Parliament who want to take a holiday. But that is a matter in which my judgment cannot be considered side by side with the importance of this measure. Personally, I think it would be wrong to rush a Bill of this character and magnitude through the 167 House of Lords. It ought to be before the country and thoroughly understood in its present form by the public at large before we are asked to take the Second Reading. I submit that it is only right that those who are chiefly concerned—the agriculturists throughout the country, big and small—should have an opportunity of becoming acquainted with the Bill in the form in which it will leave the House of Commons before it is attempted to be rushed through this Assembly.
§ [Earl CURZON OF KEDLESTON here entered the House.]
§ VISCOUNT CHAPLINAs my noble friend the Leader of the House is now in his place, I would most respectfully urge, seeing what the position of the Corn Production Bill is at the present moment and that it may not even pass the House of Commons to-night, that the Second Reading in your Lordships' House should certainly not be taken to-morrow.
§ THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON)My Lords, I am sorry that I did not hear the opening sentences of the noble Viscount's speech. Upon one point surely the facts of the case are a reassurance to him. There never has been any intention on the part of the Government or of those who are responsible for the business here to try and rush the Corn Production Bill through this House. Indeed, the time table which I ventured to suggest to your Lordships last week, in the absence of the noble Viscount, is a sufficient answer to his contention on that point. I then made it clear that, while it is true I was asking the House to take the Second Reading of the Bill to-morrow and on Thursday, there would be an interval of three or four days before the Committee stage would be taken in the early part of next week, and that then there would remain the rest of next week for the consideration of the later stages of the Bill; and I added that I hoped that we would get the Bill back to the House of Commons on Monday of the week following—namely, the 20th. I was congratulated at the time by Lord Camperdown upon having made a generous arrangement in the interests of this House—
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONWell, it was made by some other noble Lord opposite. I am therefore somewhat surprised to-day to hear the complaint of the noble Viscount. What has occurred to change the situation? The Bill has been rather more slow than was expected in its passage through its concluding stages in another place, but I have been informed since I came into the House that there is every reason to believe that it will pass the Third Reading in the House of Commons this evening. In these circumstances, is there any real reason why the Bill should not be taken for Second Reading here to-morrow? Nobody knows better than the noble Viscount what the discussion on the Second Reading of a Bill means. It means a general affirmation or contradiction of the principles of a Bill. The principles of the Corn Production Bill are perfectly well known. Nothing has passed in the House of Commons between the end of last week and the beginning of this week to affect the general principles of the Bill. What the noble Viscount is fully entitled to ask for is that ample opportunity should be given to your Lordships for preparing, putting down, and discussing your Amendments to the Bill when we pass to the Committee stage. I venture, therefore, to appeal to the noble Viscount to allow the present arrangement to stand as regards the Second Reading, and to be content with the opportunity—I think it will be an ample one—for preparing Amendments for the Committee stage.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNMy Lords, as the noble Earl who leads the House made mention of my name and said that I had congratulated or thanked him for giving us, in reference to the Corn Production Bill, a very liberal arrangement in regard to time, may I say that I am not aware that I made any remark of that kind, though I believe it was made on this side of the House—
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI apologise to the noble Earl. It was Lord Salisbury who made the remark to which I referred.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNI accept the noble Earl's apology very readily; but I commit sins enough in your Lordships' House without having any put down to me which I do not commit. Now with regard to the Corn Production 169 Bill, during the whole time I have been a member of this House I never recollect such hustling as is proposed on this occasion. I have never known a Bill of this importance put down for Second Reading here on the day after it has been received—and this Bill has not yet been received—from another place. We shall not have the Bill printed to-morrow in the shape in which it will finally leave the House of Commons to-night, and the Committee print of the Bill was circulated only two or three days ago. Really, it is hardly decent in these circumstances that this House should be asked to take the Second Reading of a Bill of this importance to-morrow. I agree with the noble Viscount that the mere proposal is treating your Lordships' House with what amounts to want of respect. I therefore hope that the noble Earl the Leader of the House will see that a little longer time is given before the Second Reading is put down.
§ LORD RIBBLESDALEMy Lords, I will not stand upon the point as to whether the procedure proposed is treating this House with respect. I think it is almost treating the House as if we had no sense if we are asked to consider the Bill to-morrow, when we shall not even have it in print before us. I believe that in another place Amendments can be inserted on Report—the stage which is being taken there at this moment. The noble Earl stated that the principle of the Bill has been affirmed over and over again. In a sense that is true. But what has taken place in the House of Commons involves us in a good many new principles which were not implicated in the Bill when it was first introduced. I ask the noble Earl the Leader of the House how he will get out of this difficulty. Shall we have the Bill in print, as it leaves the House of Commons after Report stage and Third Reading to-night, in time for us to consider it to-morrow?
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI get out of the difficulty in which my noble friend places me by informing you that the Bill will be in print and will be in the possession of your Lordships before the debate begins to-morrow. Otherwise I quite agree that it would be most unreasonable to ask your Lordships to proceed—
§ LORD RIBBLESDALEAt what hour shall we have the print of the Bill?
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONThat will depend upon consultation with the printing department. But I am so loth to be accused of any lack of respect to your Lordships, and still more to be accused by the noble Earl opposite of a lack of decency, that I would suggest to your Lordships that if you want a longer interval you should take the Second Reading on Thursday and Friday. The arrangement originally proposed was Wednesday and Thursday, leaving over the remainder of the week for the preparation of such Amendments as your Lordships might desire to put down for the Committee stage. Will it suit your Lordships if I propose that you should take the Second Reading on Thursday and Friday of this week, adhering to the arrangements in regard to the Committee stage next week that have already been suggested?
§ THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURYMy Lords, as the noble Earl the Leader of the House has mentioned, in an impulsive moment I congratulated him upon his liberality in the matter of time for the consideration of this Bill, but I was carried a little too far on that occasion by my desire to be friendly. I must say that it is treating this House with a certain amount of disrespect to ask us to consider an important Bill of this character in such a headlong way, and I am disposed to suggest that we should do well to accept the suggestion which my noble friend has just made and take the Second Reading on Thursday and Friday instead of on Wednesday and Thursday. It is true that the Bill may be in print before the meeting of the House to-morrow, but I do not imagine that it will be circulated with the Minutes to-morrow morning. We should obtain it only when we arrived at the House to-morrow afternoon. It is possible that the House of Commons will not modify the Bill very much on Report, but one cannot tell; and certainly it is a very strong measure to ask your Lordships' House to consider a Bill of this importance without an opportunity of carefully perusing the text of the Bill as it reaches us.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWECan the noble Earl the Leader of the House tell us whether the New Ministries Bill is likely to reach us to-night? It has occurred to me—after the acceptance of the noble Earl's proposal by the noble Marquess—that supposing the Bill for the creation 171 of the new Ministries reaches us to-night, your Lordships might be prepared to take it to-morrow.
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONThe suggestion of the noble Marquess who leads the Opposition is a very good one. The New Ministries Bill has passed the House of Commons, and I believe is coming up to your Lordships' House to be read a first time this afternoon; and I think the vacancy that is left by the postponement of the Second Reading of the Corn Production Bill might very properly be used by taking the New Ministries Bill to-morrow. I will put it down accordingly for Second Reading to-morrow, with the consent of your Lordships.
§ THE DUKE OF RUTLANDSupposing that the arrangement suggested by the noble Earl the Leader of the House with regard to the Corn Production Bill is accepted and we take the Second Reading on Thursday and Friday next, when does he propose that the Committee stage should be taken? Would it be taken on the same days next week as were formerly suggested, or will a further twenty-four hours be allowed for the consideration of Amendments?
§ EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTONI am not sure whether the noble Duke remembers that I had not proposed that the House should take the Committee stage of the Corn Production Bill on Monday of next week. That is a day which would be open to noble Lords to consider their Amendments, and, if necessary, to enter into private discussions on the matter. I had proposed that the Committee stage should be taken on Tuesday, and, subject to any reasons occurring to the contrary in the interval, I should like to persevere with that arrangement.
§ VISCOUNT CHAPLINI do not feel that so young a member of your Lordships' House as myself has any right to decline to accept the suggestion of the noble Earl the Leader of the House that the Second Reading of the Corn Production Bill should be taken on Thursday and Friday. But I adhere to my opinion that to take the Second Reading of a Bill of this extreme importance on so early a day after its arrival from the other House is unduly hurrying the measure. After all, it contains proposals that are absolutely novel in the 172 history of any measure that I recollect, and I submit that it is only right that we should have full and ample time in which completely to master its provisions.