HL Deb 13 April 1916 vol 21 cc710-21

[SECOND READING.]

Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.

THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (LORD ISLINGTON)

My Lords, in rising to move the Second Reading of this Bill I will briefly explain its main provisions and the objects which it sets out to achieve. As the title of the Bill indicates, it proposes to transfer the management of the Imperial Institute from the Board of Trade to the Colonial Office. By the Act of 1902 the Imperial Institute and all its property was vested in the Board of Trade; and by a subsequent arrangement, in the year 1907, entered into by the three Departments concerned—namely, the Colonial Office, the India Office, and the Board of Trade— the management and control was placed in the hands of the Colonial Office. The first object of this Bill, therefore, is to bring the law into conformity with the practice and to place by Statute the control of the Institute under the Secretary of State for the Colonies, who is, after all, the most appropriate Minister to exercise authority in regard to questions of this character.

The second part of the Bill deals with the management of the Institute and substitutes for the present Advisory Committee and Management Committee an Executive Council of twenty-five members. The Schedule will show your Lordships the constitution of the Council as determined within that Schedule. It is hoped by this readjustment of departmental control to remove the somewhat roundabout methods which have hitherto existed in regard to the authority of the Institute, by which the Board of Trade held the nominal supremacy whilst the real management was in the hands of the Colonial Office. Again, by the establishment of an Executive Council it is hoped to create a board of management which will be competent, under the control of the Colonial Office, to exercise the general administrative control of the Institute. The existing system of an Advisory Committee which has really no powers whatever and a Board of Management of three has not been found from many points of view to be so effective in its working as might be desired.

As a descriptive analogy of the kind of relationship which we propose shall exist between the Colonial Office and the Imperial Institute, I would say that the Institute will take the place in that connection of a Crown Colony in its relation to the Colonial Office. The estimates of the Institute will have to be submitted annually to, and all matters of important policy will have first to receive the sanction of, the Colonial Office. But subject to this, the Executive Council of the Institute will possess a general authority over the administrative work of the Institute, and it will report its proceedings annually to the Secretary of State for the Colonies, who, I have no doubt, in due course will submit them to Parliament and the Empire. The Executive Council must necessarily be numerous owing to the very wide and far-reaching interests that must be represented upon that body, and in order to ensure, as we all desire, its true Imperial and commercial character. I will say a word in a minute in regard to the personnel of the Executive Council. But I would, if I may, develop briefly the scheme as contemplated, but which is not actually embodied in the Bill.

It is contemplated that an essential part of the administrative work of the Institute will be undertaken by sub-committees formed from the nucleus of the Executive Council. For instance, a Finance and General Purposes Committee will undertake the ordinary routine administrative work, and will meet frequently for that purpose. It is contemplated also that there will be appointed sub-committees for particular parts of the Empire and for any particular products or groups of products in which one or other component parts of the Empire are interested. For instance, it is contemplated that there will be appointed a Sub-Committee for India. There may be special Committees appointed respectively for the Dominions, for other parts of the Empire, and for the Crown Colonies and Protectorates; and from time to time it may be found advisable to appoint ad hoc Committees to deal with those groups of products which form the raw material for our manufactures, such as palm kernels, oil seeds, copra, and other articles familiar to your Lordships. These details, of course, are not mentioned in the Bill, and properly so, but will be undertaken by regulations issued from the Colonial Office. I merely mention them to show your Lordships that an active and comprehensive system of management is in contemplation for the Imperial Institute, and that every opportunity is going to be afforded to the Institute of developing and extending its work of research in co-operation with all parts of the Empire, and, as far as possible, of translating the results of that research work into practical application for our industries at home and in other parts of the Empire. The constitution of the Executive Council has this object very prominently in mind, as will be seen from the Schedule.

In the Schedule your Lordships will observe that the Empire is represented on the Executive Council by all the great Dominions and by India, the Public Departments concerned by the Board of Trade and the Board of Agriculture, and in addition there are fourteen members to be appointed by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. I would like to say a word of explanation in regard to this last line in the Schedule, because this might appear at first sight to be a somewhat undue propor tion to be allotted to the Colonial Office, but I think on explanation your Lordships will see that there is no foundation for that apprehension. Of the fourteen, two will be taken from the present Advisory Committee in order to insure continuity with the past and existing management. There will be two officials appointed from the Colonial Office. The Director of the Imperial Institute will occupy a position upon that body; there will also be one representative of the interests of the Associated Chambers of Commerce; and a representative to be approved by the Privy Council Committee of Research will also occupy a position on this Council. It is needless for me to emphasise the importance of having a representative in touch with the Imperial Institute from a body such as the Privy Council Committee of Research, which is one of such authority, and which will, I believe and hope, play so important a part in the industrial research of: the Empire in the years to come. Then, in response to an appeal by my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for India, an additional member to those already mentioned will be afforded by a fourth representative approved by the Secretary of State for India. That makes four representatives for India, as against three now on the Advisory Committee. I think that number will allay the doubts of those in another place who appeared to have apprehensions that India would not be adequately represented upon this body. This disposes of eight of the fourteen members to be appointed by the Colonial Office. The six remaining members will be taken from those who are interested in the Crown Colonies and Protectorates. And I would mark here the importance of having adequate representation for the Crown Colonies. Whereas it is absolutely necessary, of course, to have full representation of the great Dominions, of India, and all the other interests, it is of vital importance to have full representation for the Crown Colonies, which in essence must be in a large measure dependent upon the Imperial Institute for contact as between the producer of the raw material in their countries and the manufacturer in this country, and which are not possessed, as the other Dominions and India are, of well-established research laboratories. This completes in broad outline the scheme; but I shall be very glad to offer additional information to any noble Lord who may desire such at a subsequent stage of the Bill.

Before sitting down, perhaps I may be permitted very briefly to describe the work of the Institute. I think that any one acquainted with its work of recent years will agree that it has earned the esteem of all who are desirous of promoting Imperial interests in commerce and industry. I have had especial opportunity of observing the work of the Institute, because I have had the honour of occupying for the last two years the position of chairman of the Advisory Committee. Much has been done recently, and especially since the outbreak of the war. Every opportunity has been taken to promote to practical utility raw products from various parts of the Empire as material for British industries. And I may, perhaps, be allowed to say here that the Director of the Imperial Institute, Professor Dunstan, is largely responsible for the active work that has been done in this connection. By his ability, initiative, and untiring energy, he has rendered great service to the Empire and to the manufacturing industries of this country. Had I time I could give several instances of raw products that have been made applicable for manufacture as the result of research in the laboratories of the Imperial Institute since the war commenced, but it will be sufficient for me to say that this work has been and is being undertaken with vigour.

In connection with the research laboratories of the Institute a branch has of recent years been established known as the Technical Information Bureau of the Imperial Institute, which forms a kind of agency between the producer in the distant Colony and the manufacturer at home. This bureau has been instrumental in giving technical information to many manufacturers in this country as regards the raw material in the Colonies and in India, and thereby has enabled that raw material to form the foundation for new and progressive industries here. When we come to realise the size and extent of our Empire, the capacity it has to produce in abundance and in excellence practically every ingredient required for every article of manufacture in use in the world; when, again, we realise that whole groups of products growing and available in profusion in one or other of our possessions, some even hitherto regarded as mere useless superfluities of nature, have now as the result of research and of experiment in the laboratory become invaluable and, indeed, indispens- able foundations of modern industry and manufacture, I think that we can begin to appreciate the supremely important place that the Imperial Institute and kindred organisations of this character must occupy in the scheme of our industrial progress in the future.

There are two points that I think must have been brought to our minds vividly as the outcome of the present war—first, the absolute necessity of applying scientific research at every stage of our manufacturing methods; and, secondly, our growing and, I hope, universal determination that our own raw products, wherever grown or found within the Empire, shall in future form the basis for British Imperial industries, and not, as hitherto, be sent to be manufactured in Germany. It is because I believe that one and by no means the least of the methods by which this object can be achieved is the improvement of the machinery of the organisation of the Imperial Institute and the opportunity thereby afforded to extend and develop its useful activities, that I with complete confidence submit to your approval this Bill arid ask you to give it a Second Reading.

Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Islington.)

LORD SUDELEY

My Lords, I hope that your Lordships will allow me to say a few words in regard to this Bill, as I have always taken great interest in the Imperial Institute. The noble Lord who has moved the Second Reading has shown your Lordships the great importance of this Bill. I think there can be little doubt that the putting of the Institute into the hands of the Colonial Office is the right thing to do. Hitherto it has been under two Offices, and although the Board of Trade has not interfered much, still there was no one really to father the Institute. The result has been great lack of energy so far as outside work was concerned, although the Director and the staff have done their very utmost. But the opportunity seems now to have come to put the Institute on an entirely different footing.

Your Lordships will remember that in the Jubilee year, 1887, this great scheme was inaugurated. It was started in a somewhat doubtful way. The Institute was first of all to be a sort of social club, combined with the hope that it would become of great Imperial benefit. In the year 1893 the building was opened with a great flourish of trumpets. The money which was collected was considerable, and everything appeared to be all right. Unfortunately there were no proper funds given to enable the Institute to be developed, and after a certain time it was shown that the lighter side of the scheme would have to be dropped. In the year 1899 the Institute was taken over by the Government, and in that year the finances were put into a somewhat better form—that is to say, the mortgage was paid off, and a portion of the building was given to the University of London. Since then the work has proceeded; the stall have done their utmost, as also have the Advisory Committee; but it is only lately that the work has really progressed.

The noble Lord has stated the far-reaching benefits which have accrued and are likely to accrue from the work of the Institute. He has shown that the research department has done great things, and has been of immense use in demonstrating to manufacturers the products of the Empire. That is quite true. But this has not been done in a whole-hearted way and to the extent that it ought to have been done. The present seems to me an opportunity which the Government ought not to lose. The various sub-committees which the noble Lord has explained it is intended to appoint will do a great deal. But unless you succeed in obtaining the co-operation of the Dominions beyond the seas, you will not do very much. I have been told by many gentlemen from the Colonies that they have an immense opinion of the Imperial Institute, and that many of the products which they did not know had any great value have been found to be of enormous value. The noble Lord alluded to a Committee which would deal with such products as palm kernels, oil seeds, and copra. A gentleman told me the other day that the value of the work already done represented thousands and thousands of pounds benefit to agriculturists. Then the noble Lord said that a good deal had been accomplished since the outbreak of the war in enabling products to be utilised for the purposes of the war. An interesting discussion took place a short time ago at the Chamber of Commerce, and there it was shown that in the Imperial Institute many things had been successfully carried out. For instance, there is a valuable surgical antiseptic known as thymol, which was made only by the Germans. In six weeks the price of that went up eight times. The Imperial Institute were asked by the Government whether they could make any suggestion, and in a very short time they pointed out that this article could be obtained from seed grown in India. It is now being made in this country to the very great benefit of all concerned. There are, as your Lordships know, many Things made from boxwood. That has hitherto been procured only from the shores of the Caspian and the Black Sea, and very little could be obtained. The Imperial Institute were again applied to, and they were able to say that there was a tree in South Africa which possessed the same qualities. Then take the case of atropine. That, as your Lordships know, is most essential for eye disease. It was only to be obtained in Germany, and consequently we were placed in a position of very great difficulty as to what to do. The Imperial Institute were again asked what they could suggest, and they were able to say that there was a plant in Egypt which would give the same substance. Those are a few instances—I could give a great many more—which show the benefit which the Imperial Institute has conferred on the country since the outbreak of war.

After the war terminates, whenever that happy event comes, the Imperial Institute ought to be a great centre for commercial development, for in the matter of scientific investigation a great deal can still be done. The first thing that the new Executive Council ought to do is to deal with the question of finance. After all, that is the most important thing. Without, proper means of working the Institute it is impossible that the great benefits which the noble Lord has sketched can be carried out. He has said, and very justly, that our duty is to see whether in this great Empire we cannot produce all the raw materials which we want, and then the question is whether with these raw materials we cannot make the manufactures entirely in this country. To show the great trouble that has been experienced from the point of view of finance in carrying on the work of the Institute—which, notwithstanding, has been done in an extremely able way—I may mention that I have on several occasions brought before your Lordships the question of the appointment of museum guide lecturers. Of all the institutions in the country the one which you would have thought would have been popularly explained would be the Imperial Institute. But, unfortunately, the question of expense has been urged against this over and over again. A guide lecturer was started, and for a few months the movement was able to be carried out; but then it was stopped owing to want of funds. And when it is remembered that the cost per annum of a guide lecturer to devote himself to explaining the resources of the Colonies comes to only £200, the absurdity of discontinuing the services of such an official will be readily seen. Whilst in the great majority of museums during the last few years crowds of people have listened eagerly to the explanations given, in the Imperial Institute, the one of all others which was started in order to exhibit the resources of the Empire, there have been no explanations given except when the Director and the staff gave them themselves. That is, I think, proof that the present state of the finances of the Imperial Institute is exceedingly bad. I do not mean to say that it will be necessary for this country to run the Institute entirely. By no manner of means. The Council ought to be able to initiate some plan by which there should be an adequate Imperial grant. After that I am sure, if it is property developed and if the Dominions beyond the seas and the Crown Colonies are shown the capabilities of the Institute and what has already been achieved, they will all join in, and there will be no further question of any difficulty in regard to money.

There is one matter which I should like to press upon the attention of the noble Lord, and on which I may, perhaps, move an Amendment when the Bill reaches the Committee stage. That is whether, now that Ministers from overseas are constantly coming over here to attend Conferences, and so on, it would not be a courteous thing and of great benefit to the Imperial Institute to insert in this Bill a clause providing that any member of the Cabinet of any of the Dominion Governments who was on a visit to this country should be an ex officio member of the Council of the Institute. That is a small thing, but if you could get some of these great officials to take a real and lively interest in the Imperial Institute great benefit would be achieved. This Bill, which is one of great importance, could not be in the hands of a noble Lord better qualified to have charge of it. The noble Lord the Under-Secretary of State for India has been for two years on the Advisory Committee, and he was for many years Governor of New Zealand and always had the credit when he was out there of whole-heartedly devoting himself to the capabilities of that country and seeing in what way its products could be developed.

VISCOUNT MILNER

My Lords, this Bill is, as I understand, machinery—quite good machinery, as far as I am able to judge from what the noble Lord said in explaining it. But we have had the Imperial Institute for many years, and until quite recently little has come of it. Whether or not the machinery proposed in this Bill is going to be of really great value to the Empire will depend entirely upon the amount of interest which the present and succeeding Governments continue to take in the Institute and upon the liberality with which they may be prepared to support it. We have been in the past extraordinarily indifferent to the enormous resources of our Colonial Empire, and especially of the Crown Colonies, and we have been equally indifferent to the importance of science in every branch of our public life and in the development of the resources of our Empire. I may say that I listened with the greatest pleasure to the concluding sentences of the speech of the noble Lord. If the two principles which he laid down and to which he attached such great importance are really going to be live principles in Imperial policy in the future, then I think we may look forward to the dawning of a better day.

It has been a matter of extraordinary difficulty in my experience—and I dare say the noble Lord will agree that it has been so in his, for we have occupied somewhat similar positions in the past—to get any sympathy or appreciation in this country for the possibilities of what the late Mr. Chamberlain once called "our vast undeveloped estate." A new spirit, no doubt, came into Imperial administration with his advent to the Colonial Office, and I am glad to be able to say that, certainly as far as the Crown Colonies are concerned, the progressive spirit which he introduced has been maintained by his successors. Altogether there has been more progress in the last ten or fifteen years in what I may call the appreciative administration and the sound economic development of the dependent Empire, especially of the great tropical Crown Colonies, than in all our past history, certainly for fifty or a hundred years past. No doubt at one time the value of Colonies like the West Indies was fully appreciated, but throughout nearly the whole of the 19th century they were almost forgotten.

I do not wish to detain the House, but I could not help remembering something of my own experience and difficulties of the past. I could not help most cordially welcoming the spirit in which the noble Lord introduced this measure, and, if I may so express myself, underlining the words which he used with reference to the importance of it. We are a very small assembly here to-day, and in the midst of the tremendous question of Imperial policy with which we are all confronted a matter of this kind may appear of comparative insignificance. Certainly it does not attract a large audience. But I feel honestly convinced that if the Imperial Institute is really to be a central home of science and research for the development of the products of the Empire, and if those who are responsible for its administration are to realise that in it they have an instrument which may be of fundamental importance, not only economically but politically, in welding the Empire together, the matter which we are discussing to-day may come to be looked back upon in the future as one of the most important subjects brought before this House. There can be no question, of course, that this measure will pass. I may possibly have something to say on minor points in Committee. But the main point is that we should all realise how big a subject it is with which we are dealing. Above all, I would venture to express the fervent hope that the history of the Imperial Institute may not be in the future what it has been in the past—namely, a great splash followed by years of negligence—but that this Government and successive Governments may continue to recognise its immense importance and give it that liberality in money without which it cannot accomplish its great objects so eloquently described by the noble Lord.

VISCOUNT PEEL

My Lords, I should like to ask the noble Lord in charge of this Bill whether it is contemplated merely to transfer these liabilities, duties, and so on, to this new body, or whether there is in contemplation a further and larger grant for all these new developments. The noble Lord gave us an eloquent picture of what was to be done at the Imperial Institute under the new system, but no one knows better than he does that in order to translate that picture into fact and to prevent his speech being merely an eloquent performance, a great deal more money is wanted. Therefore I ask whether it is in contemplation to give larger grants to the Institute than have been given in the past.

LORD ISLINGTON

I would point out to the noble Viscount that this Bill does not deal with the financial aspect at all. It is purely a Bill of machinery. It transfers from the Board of Trade to the Colonial Office the whole property and assets connected with the Imperial Institute, but it does not attempt to deal in any shape or form with any of the grants, either those which come from the Dominions or from India, or those which come from the Exchequer.

On Question, Bill read 2a, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.