§ THE EARL OF CROMER rose to ask whether the Statement that has recently appeared in the Press to the effect that Egyptian residents in England are treated as alien enemies is correct.
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, about a year ago some discussion took place in this House as to the treatment of Orientals who were alien enemies. I pointed out at the time that I thought it very undesirable that Egyptians should be treated as Ottoman subjects, though of course technically they were. I considered it extremely desirable from a political point of view that everything should be done that was possible to separate the Egyptians from Turks. But nothing was done at the time. That was, I believe, because the Government were in possession of information that a Protectorate would shortly be proclaimed in Egypt. As a matter of fact the Protectorate was afterwards proclaimed, and though I am not lawyer enough to say whether the fact that the Protectorate was proclaimed makes all Egyptians ipso facto British subjects I can conceive that that may be the case, and that makes it politically even more desirable that no distinction should be made between Egyptian subjects and British subjects.
§
On December 22 last year the Home Secretary issued through the Press Bureau a notification that "now that the suzerainty of Turkey over Egypt is terminated. Egyptians cease to be alien enemies." I certainly therefore thought the whole thing was settled. But I saw a
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letter the other day written to The Times by an Egyptian Copt with whom I am not personally acquainted but whom I know by reputation. He says that Egyptians in London have just received a Metropolitan Police Notice stating that—
Turkish subjects of military age (17 to 55 are now liable to internment. If therefore, you do not obtain exemption from the Home Secretary, your internment will take place shortly.
I should like to ask whether that statement is correct. I very much hope it is not; but, if it is, all I can say is that there must have been some serious blunder, and that it is another instance of what has been so frequently heard of lately—namely, a want of unity and co-operation amongst the various authorities of the Government.
§ THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD NEWTON)My Lords, the apparent explanation of the circumstance to which my noble friend has drawn attention is that on the fourth of this month instructions were issued to the Metropolitan Police to proceed with the internment of Ottoman subjects and owing to some mistake, which has not yet been explained, Egyptians have, in consequence of those instructions, been in some instances served with the notice mentioned in the letter to The Times to which my noble friend referred. Thus mistake, the exact extent of which has not yet been ascertained, has now been corrected by the issue of a new Memorandum which I will read to the noble Earl.
§
On the twelfth of this month the following Memorandum was issued—
Referring to the Memorandum of the 4th instant as to the internment and deportation of alien enemies, it is to be noted that Egyptians, as described in the Memorandum of December 22 last, are, not subject to internment or repatriation and are not to be served with notices.
Between the date of the Declaration of War with Turkey and the issue of the Proclamation of the Protectorate Egyptians were treated as ordinary alien enemies, but after the proclaiming of the Protectorate these instructions were, of course, altered. Further instructions were issued with regard to this point, and if in any case they have not been attended to it is, as I have already explained, owing to carelessness or a mistake on the part of the Police.
§ My noble friend on a previous occasion pointed out the obvious absurdity of 1071 treating every technically Ottoman subject as an enemy, and in that everybody who has a most rudimentary acquaintance with the East will, I am sure, fully agree with him. As a matter of fact I have taken a certain amount of interest in this question myself for some time, and I am glad to be able to assure my noble friend that there are very few Ottoman subjects interned at the present moment in this country. Such Ottoman subjects as are interned consist almost entirely of sailors and stokers who have been taken off ships and who are in a destitute condition. In January of this year Syrians, Greeks, and Armenians who had received certain Police certificates under the Consolidated Aliens Restriction Orders have not been interned and have been informed that there is no necessity to apply for exemption. As regards other Ottoman subjects who have appealed for exemption, they, in almost every case, have been exempted from internment upon the recommendation of the Advisory Committee. That Committee has in very few instances indeed recommended internment, and if they have done so it has only been for some special reason. I might add that most of these applications were from Jews established in this country, and whenever a Mahomedan applied for exemption his application was treated with as much consideration and leniency as in the case of the others. I am able to speak with a little authority upon the question of the consideration with which these men have been treated, because the Advisory Committee to which I alluded did me the honour of referring certain cases to me—a large number, in fact—and I satisfied myself, so far as my investigations 1072 could carry me, that in every case these men were treated with complete consideration.
§ THE EARL OF CROMERI am much obliged to my noble friend for his very full reply. It is clear that a blunder was committed. I am glad it has been rectified and I hope it will be publicly known, because as it stood the matter was likely to be misunderstood and cause discontent in Egypt. What has occurred confirms the view which my noble friends and I took, that these matters of dealing with Oriental races should not be left to Chief Constables and others, but that they should have advice from those who are better acquainted with the subject than themselves.
§ LORD NEWTONThat has already been done; but I hope that the fact of my noble friend having put this Question will draw attention to the manner in which this subject is being generally treated by the Government.