LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGHMy Lords, I desire to ask the noble Lord the Paymaster-General whether he will give to the House the figures upon which the calculation is based that seventy per cent. of the British Expeditionary Force in France are members of the Church of England. The House may, perhaps, re collect that it was this calculation that was given as an explanation for the somewhat extraordinary promotion of the Church of England Deputy Chaplain-General, the Bishop of Khartoum, to the rank of Major-General. I venture to suggest that, even if the calculation is true, it is not a good reason for the action that has been taken. But I do not believe that the calculation is accurate, and therefore I am asking the noble Lord whether he will give to the House the basis upon which the calculation is made.
I wish to make it again perfectly clear that in so far as this change of rank was a pure matter of Church of England concern, I do not express any opinion about it. I am as anxious as any one can be that the organisation of Church of 1032 England chaplaincies should be as efficient as possible, and the more efficient the better I should be pleased: But I cannot understand why it was necessary to make the rank of the Senior Chaplain of the Church of England superior to that of any other, unless it was intended to supersede everybody, and this is what a great many people still believe. I am content to accept the disclaimer given on the part of the War Office on that matter; but there is a very strong feeling that the intention was to put the Church of England Senior Chaplain above everybody and not to confine this to a matter of Church of England concern.
I am quite aware that the calculation used to be made before we went to war a year and a-half ago that seventy per cent. of the Forces were members of the Church of England. That, I believe, was then obtained by writing down as a member of the Church of England everybody who expressed no opinion as to his Church. That may or may not have been a reasonable thing to do, but I am perfectly certain that the constitution of the Force as it now exists cannot be made up of seventy per cent. of members of the Church of England. I do not believe that in the British Isles the membership of the Church of England is anything like seventy per cent. Personally I believe it to be under fifty per cent., taking the whole of the population and calculating by any of the ordinary ways, such as the performance of marriages or matters that can be got at according to ordinary statistics. Therefore I am particularly anxious that we should have a statement of the basis for this calculation that seventy per cent. of the British Expeditionary Force in France are members of the Church of England.
§ THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD NEWTON)My Lords, as my noble friend was good enough to say that he accepted my disclaimer with regard to the vexed question of the relative rank of the two ecclesiastics in question, it will not be necessary, I hope, for me to say anything on that particular point. But with regard to the Question on the Paper, my noble friend will recollect that I was particularly careful to use the adjective "approximate" when I gave my answer on September 22. I did so because I was informed by the 1033 War Office that it is not possible to obtain exact statistics with regard to the various denominations at the present moment. Indeed, on the attestation form now in use the question of a man's religion is not dealt with. The calculation that seventy per cent. of the Force consists of members of the Church of England rests, as the noble Lord will not be surprised to hear, upon the conditions in peace time. Taking the years from 1907 to 1913, which is the last year in respect of which statistics are available, the average number of members of the Church of England in the Army was a little over seventy per cent. These figures are the basis of the statement which I made; and I may observe, in spite of what my noble friend has said, that there does not seem any apparent reason why this proportion should have changed in consequence of the war. One may reasonably expect that the same proportion would hold good in war as in time of peace. As my noble friend entered upon the question of the numbers compared to population, perhaps I may remind him that the population of England is, if I am not mistaken, almost exactly four times the united population of Scotland and of Ireland. Therefore, even if you assume that every Scottish soldier is a Presbyterian and every Irish soldier a Roman Catholic and make allowance for the presence of large numbers of Nonconformists in the British Army, on the face of it there seems to be nothing improbable in the statement that seventy per cent. of the Force are members of the Church of England.
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGHCan the noble Lord say whether the proportions to which he referred are obtained by writing down as members of the Church of England every one who makes no contrary declaration?
§ LORD NEWTONI am unable to inform the noble Lord how these particular figures are arrived at. Personally I should like to say that that is one of the results of not having a religious census in this country. As to writing down as members of the Church of England every one who makes no contrary declaration, I am unaware whether any such practice takes place. But if the noble Lord wishes it I will do my best to find out whether or not sufficient care is taken in that matter.