Lords Sitting of 19 May 1915

BURY AND DISTRICT JOINT WATER BOARD BILL.
Reported, with Amendments.
STREATLEY AND CORING BRIDGE BILL.
Reported, with Amendments.
FEE FUND OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid on the Table the Annual Account of the Fee Fund of the House of Lords: The same was ordered to lie on the Table, and to be referred to the Select Committee on the House of Lords Offices.
HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICES.
Third Report of the Select Committee made, to be printed, and to be considered on Tuesday the 8th of June. (No. 72.)
ASHINGTON URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
PRIVATE AND PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION BILLS.
Ordered, That Standing Orders Nos. 92 and 93 be suspended; and that the time for depositing Petitions praying to be heard against, Private and Provisional Order Confirmation Bills, also the time for depositing documents relating to any Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899, which would otherwise expire during the adjournment of the House, be extended to the first day on which the House shall sit after the Recess at Whitsuntide.
CALEDONIAN RAILWAY ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL.
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed.

BELGIAN REFUGEES AT ETON.
LORD BRAVE LORD BRAVE had given notice that he would ask His Majesty's Government—

1. Why the Belgian refugees, twenty-one in number, now placed in the Public School at Eton, are penalised in the exercise of their religious duties in being forbidden to enter the Catholic church in Eton town and being obliged to attend on Sunday mornings a distant church in Windsor, and on week-days being debarred from all possibility of attending any service, although the service in the Eton Catholic church is available; whether the Headmaster in making this prohibition is acting ultra vires or not, or whether the authority for such regulations is vested in the governing body by law solely without reference to the headmaster or not;

2. Whether Belgian refugee boys have been admitted to any other of the public schools of England affected by Acts of Parliament, and if so, whether there also they are forbidden their nearest church, or whether they are quite free to frequent it; and further

3. Whether the governing body of Eton is empowered by Act of Parliament to modify the Statutes affecting Eton School so as to relax the restrictions imposed by Anglican authorities on the freedom of Catholics, Presbyterians, Jews, or other non-Anglicans to attend their respective places of worship.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, I desire to postpone for a time the Questions standing in my name on the Paper. I am entirely in the hands of the House and the Government in this matter, but I have very recently received a communication from the Headmaster of Eton in which he says that he is in correspondence with certain authorities as to the propriety of withdrawing the veto. Consequently I think it might be desirable to allow a little further time for a conclusion to be reached, although unfortunately some three or four months have already elapsed in trying to come to a conclusion. It would be more satisfactory if the Headmaster would answer the first portion of my Questions himself privately. The subject is of some public interest, and I may mention that

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only recently I received a letter from Canada in which I am informed that the matter has been noticed there and has had a disastrous effect upon recruiting among Catholics, who resent the attitude which the most important public school in Great Britain has assumed towards their co-religionists. I mention that as showing that this is a matter which affects not only many in this country but many throughout the Colonies. With your Lordships' permission, however, I beg to postpone the Questions for the present.

BRITISH NORTH AMERICA BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD ISLINGTON): My Lords, this is a Bill to amend the British North America Act of 1867. That Act constituted three senatorial divisions—Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritime Provinces. It is proposed in this Bill to add a fourth or western division to meet the general development in population and in industry of the western part of Canada and so place the western Provinces in a position of equality with the eastern Provinces. At present the three eastern Provinces are entitled to twenty-four Senators each, whilst of the western group from time to time as that portion of Canada has developed the members have been increased so that at present Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Alberta have four Senators respectively and British Columbia three, making in all fifteen for that western portion. It is now proposed to group those together as a fourth western division and to give them twenty-four Senators, as are given to the other three divisions that I have just described, placing them on an equality. In the case of all the other self-governing Dominions legislation has been enacted which enables them to alter and amend their own constitutional Acts, but in Canada the Constitution is still controlled by the Act of 1867 and any addition above that of six members has to be ratified by the Imperial Parliament. I might. add that in addition to the numbers allowed in the existing Act there is, to meet the emergency of a deadlock between the two Houses, a power to increase the members by one or two in the three existing divisions; and of course, to comply with that allowance, a similar provision is now extended to this new fourth division, making therefore in all the possibility of
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increasing to eight Senators and allowing thereby, as your Lordships will see in the Bill, a maximum membership in the Senate of 104. This comes to us as a Petition to the Crown for legislation on these lines, and it is made to us by the Canadian Legislature representing the unanimous approval and assent of that Legislature. This Bill, which has passed without amendment through another place, is therefore, as your Lordships will realise, what may be regarded merely as a formal affirmation by the Imperial Parliament of the Petition which has been sent to us from Canada. I beg to move.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Islington.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

SPECIAL CONSTABLES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
LORD STANMORE: My Lords, the law which regulates the appointment of special constables in Scotland requires that the persons so appointed shall be between the ages of twenty and fifty, and that the appointments shall be for a period not exceeding six months. Both these limitations have been found to be inconvenient and unnecessary in the present circumstances, and this Bill has been introduced to meet the wishes of the Police authorities, who want to be empowered to appoint suitable men over fifty years of age and for a period not necessarily limited to six months.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Stanmore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

FISHERY HARBOURS BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (EARL BEAUCHAMP): My Lords, my noble friend the President of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries is absent on the business of his Department, and he has asked me to make his apologies

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to your Lordships and to move the Second Reading of this Bill on his behalf. I am happy to say that the Bill is not so important as might be imagined from its length. It is, as a matter of fact, a Bill of a very small nature and of a purely temporary character, designed to adapt the existing procedure to schemes for the improvement of small fishery harbours, which schemes are regarded favourably by the Harbour Commissioners but which could not be carried out unless prompt action is taken by means of this Bill to set up machinery for their execution. From Clause 4 (3) your Lordships will see that the operation of the Bill is limited to two years from its passing. Therefore I think we may say that it comes strictly within the definition of emergency legislation. Your Lordships will also see that the Bill does not extend to Scotland or Ireland. In view of the character of the Bill, which, as I have said, is needed for the improvement of small harbours principally used by the fishing industry, I venture to hope that your Lordships will not only give it a Second Reading but allow it to proceed through its remaining stages and receive the Royal Assent in the course of this afternoon.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.— (Earl Beauchamp.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived; Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

IMMATURE SPIRITS (RESTRICTION) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD STRACHIE): My Lords, this is a Bill which, together with the Defence of the Realm (No. 3) Bill, takes the place of the proposals made by the Government in another place as regards the restriction in the national interests of the sale of intoxicating liquor. The operative clause is contained in the first part of the Bill—
"No British or foreign spirits shall be delivered for home consumption unless they have been warehoused for a period of at least three years."
Your Lordships will note that not only do we impose this restriction on British spirits, but in fairness to the British manufacturer we impose an equivalent obligation in regard to all foreign spirits as well.
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The Government have met the difficulty which arose in the North of Ireland, where it was alleged that a large amount of spirit could not be bonded owing to lack of accommodation, by providing that for a period of one year after the commencement of this Bill spirits may be taken out of bond after two years, but in respect of such spirits an extra duty of 1s. per gallon will be charged. The words in the Bill are "subject to the payment of such duties, if ally." The reason for that is that this is not a Money Bill and no duties are imposed thereby, but it is in contemplation to impose in the Budget this extra duty and other extra duties which I will explain in a moment.
I do not think I need labour the reasons for this restriction upon the sale of immature whisky or the evil effects of the consumption of raw spirits. Nor will I go into the well-known experiment which the Royal Commission carried out on monkeys, which showed that the monkey to whom raw spirit was given made himself very unpleasant whilst the one who was given matured spirit became very mellow—with exactly opposite results when the cases were reversed.
No duty is to be imposed and no restrictions placed on spirit used for commercial purposes. As regards spirits used by chemists and druggists, there is to be an obligation that if the spirit so used has not been in bond for two years an extra duty of 1s. 6d. per gallon will have to be paid. As to imported Geneva and perfumed spirits, if they have been warehoused for a period of two years there will be an extra duty of 1s. 7d., and if for less than two years 2s. 5d.; and in the case of foreign liqueurs there will be an extra duty of 1s. 4d. and 2s. respectively.
Subsection (2) of Clause 1 provides that nothing contained in the Bill shall interfere with the supply of rectified spirits of wine for the purpose of making medicines to registered medical practitioners, to hospitals, and to persons, firms, and bodies corporate entitled to carry on the business of a chemist and druggist. This subsection was inserted on Report in another place yesterday. I am told that strictly it was unnecessary, but it has been put in to make the point clear. Then there is a subsection imposing a penalty of £100 and forfeiture of the spirits in the case of contravention of this Bill. Clause 2 pro-

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vides protection for contractors by enacting that where any existing contracts are interfered with by this Bill the contractors shall to the extent of such interference be relieved therefrom. I hope your Lordships will consider that I have sufficiently explained the Bill, and will not only give it a Second Reading but allow it to go through its remaining stages to-day, as it is desirable that it should become law as soon as possible.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

HOUSING (ROSYTH DOCKYARD) BILL.
EARL BEAUCHAMP: My Lords, there is a Bill in connection with housing at Rosyth which has just received a Third Reading in another place, and which, I understand, is on its way to your Lordships' House. It is desirable, if your Lordships agree to the passage of the Bill, that it should receive the Royal Assent in the course of this afternoon. Therefore I suggest that the House should adjourn during pleasure and resume when the Bill reaches us.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: My Lords, I have heard the noble Earl's statement with some surprise. This Bill, according to the newspapers, only passed through Committee in the House of Commons last night, and the noble Earl tells us that it has been read a third time there this afternoon. Your Lordships are to be asked to pass the Bill through all its stages without its being in print and without our knowing anything about it. The Bill gives great powers to the Local Government Board, powers which profess to he given under the Town Planning Act but which are much larger than anything contained in that Act. Really, there is moderation in all things ! If your Lordships pass this Bill in this way you will pass anything, and it is quite unnecessary to bring Bills to this House at all if they are to be dealt with in this sort of way. If it is thought desirable that this Rosyth Bill should be passed with this expedition, I suppose we shall hear what the reasons are when it is introduced. Our duty, we are told, is to revise Bills, but this is the position in which we are placed—we are asked to pass Bills that we have not even seen.
EARL BEAUCHAMP: My Lords, it is obvious that His Majesty's Government have no defence to offer to the attack which has just been made by the noble Earl, and we can only throw ourselves on the mercy of the House. I venture to hope that when the Bill reaches us and the noble Earl hears the reasons which can be advanced in its favour he will be induced to look upon it with a more favourable eye.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: The statement which was made in another place by the Secretary for Scotland, as I shall show your Lordships when the Bill comes up, was absolutely incorrect as regards the facts.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I think the House will consider that my noble friend's protest. is not unreasonable. The noble Earl opposite frankly admitted it. This really is going beyond even the wide limits which we have allowed ourselves in these matters. We have just passed through all their stages several Bills, some of which had not been in our hands until we came down to the House this afternoon. But here is a Bill which we have not only not seen, but about which we know nothing. Is this Bill a permanent alteration of the law, or is it only a change intended to operate while the war is in progress? We shall adjourn this afternoon for a fortnight or three weeks. Is the urgency so great that the Bill could not be deferred until after the holiday?
EARL BEAUCHAMP: The reason for urgency is that the Bill has to do with the building of houses at Rosyth and the running of tramways so that there can be access between the houses and the dockyard. I see that the Bill has reached your Lordships, so that perhaps we may now proceed with its discussion on a more regular basis.
Housing (Rosyth Dockyard) Bill brought from the Commons; read 1a, and to be printed.
LORD STANMORE: My Lords, in rising to move the Second Reading of this Bill I may explain that Rosyth Dockyard is in the Burgh of Dunfermline. In terms of the Housing Act, 1914, it is proposed that an authorised society (which has been approved by the Treasury) should build

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houses for the accommodation of the dockyard employees on land now belonging to the Admiralty but proposed to be transferred to the society. The Town Council of Dunfermline applied in 1912 to the Scottish Local Government Board for authority to prepare a town planning scheme, which was duly given. The area of the proposed scheme includes the Admiralty land in question. As from the date of application the law prohibits the erection of houses on laud covered by a proposed scheme, except at the risk of the builders. If houses built notwithstanding this prohibition are not in accordance with the scheme finally approved power to pull them down without compensation may be given in certain circumstances.
The town planning scheme under consideration by Dunfermline proceeds on the assumption that an important tramway will be laid on a particular route. Under a recent decision of a Private Bill Committee the tramway company do not now propose to proceed in the first instance with that, particular line of tramways, but will operate first on another route. This decision has seriously interfered with the town planning proposals; it may be necessary to revise them drastically, and this may take a year or more. Meanwhile the area covered by the scheme is practically "sterilised" for building unless the authorised society can be assured that any houses they may now build will not be interfered with in the future on the ground that they do not conform to the town planning scheme as ultimately approved.
It is most essential that the houses for dockyard employees should be put up at once, and the Admiralty are pressing strongly for this. The agreement between the Local Government Board and the society, which by the desire of the Government is to put up the houses, is on the point of signature, and the society can go ahead at once with building, but they must first be guaranteed against interference with the houses put up. These are not of the usual tenement type contemplated in the ordinary Scottish Building Acts and by-laws, but of the garden city cottage type.
It is therefore necessary, if building operations are to begin at once, to free the land affected (1) from the "sterilising" influence of the Town Planning Act, and (2) from building, etc., restrictions imposed
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by other Acts or regulations. This Bill proposes to give powers to the Town Council of Dunfermline (subject to the consent, of the Local Government Board for Scotland) and to the Local Government Board to relax the provisions of the Housing and Town Planning Act and any local Acts or regulations so as to enable building to proceed at once, and it is put forward as an emergency measure. Similar powers exist in the Housing, Town Planning, &c., Act, 1909, which are exercisable as part of a town planning scheme.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: In what part, of that Act?
LORD STANMORE: I am afraid I cannot tell the noble Earl. I may add that the Bill as originally introduced has undergone amendment in the House of Commons in accordance with a settlement arrived at with the Dunfermline Town Council. The Bill in its present form is satisfactory to that body, and I understand that it passed the House of Commons as an agreed measure.
Moved (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), That the Bill be now read 2a.—(Loud Stanmore.)
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: My Lords, I do not desire to take your Lordships into the rather confusing question of the details of this arrangement between the Town Council of Dunfermline and the Government. I wish merely to point out what has happened in this case. The noble Lord told us that Amendments had been introduced into the Bill which he understood were accepted. Where are those Amendments, and what are they? They were not in the Bill yesterday. The noble Lord also spoke of what he called the "sterilising influence of the Town Planning Act." What in the world he meant by that I have not the remotest idea, because I do not think any one will say that that is not a very stringent Act and that it does not give very great powers to the Local Government Board. That, again, is a subsidiary matter.
I will come to the essence of the Bill, which I think the noble Lord left untouched. It seems that a Scottish Private Bill Commission came to a particular decision. This appears to have interfered with the town planning scheme of Dunfermline, and this Bill was brought in virtually to

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alter this decision and to enable things to be clone which otherwise, owing to the decision of the Commission, could not be done. I may say that my reason for addressing your Lordships at all is that this is such a flagrant violation of all the principles of legislation as we have hitherto understood them that I do not think it ought to be allowed to pass without a protest. The Secretary for Scotland, in introducing this Bill, said—
"The House will appreciate that it is quite unreasonable to expect this company to find this money if their buildings may be removed without compensation. We must therefore bring in a provision to protect them against that risk. That is the whole object of this Bill. The model upon which it is based is a section in the Housing Act of 1909—Section 55 (2)."
When one turns to that section it appears that it does nothing of the sort. What the section says is that the Local Government Board may make alterations in an Act of Parliament. But this follows—
"Provided that where the scheme contains provisions suspending any enactment contained in a public general Act, the scheme shall not come into force unless a draft thereof has been laid before each House of Parliament for a period of not less than forty days during the session of Parliament."
There is, therefore, an opportunity given to Parliament to object to the scheme. In this Bill it is proposed to enact that—
"The Board may suspend any statutory enactments, bylaws, regulations, or other provisions, under whatever authority made, which are in operation in the area included in the scheme."
That is giving an absolute power to alter any general Act, the very thing which is prohibited by the subsection of Section 55 quoted by the Secretary for Scotland. It is a power which has never, so far as I know, been given to any body before. I do not think the Secretary for Scotland knew what he was doing, but that is the effect of this provision. By it you are giving to the Local Government Board an absolute power to alter au Act of Parliament, by-law, regulation, or other provision.
During the last five or six years we have been giving more and more power to Boards, and there is no doubt that we are now ruled by Boards very much as if they were Houses of Parliament. But this, I am bound to say, is the strongest instance of it that I have ever seen. The Admiralty are, I believe, desirous of having these houses and it may be desirable that the houses should be built, although I am bound to
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say that if it is only a question of putting the matter off for a short time I do not see that there is any strong argument in that to oblige us to pass the Bill in the way proposed. It is really converting this House into a farce. How can we revise this Bill? We do not know what it is. Amendments have been inserted which were not in the Bill originally, and even if we knew what those Amendments were the main objection is that the Bill gives to the Local Government Board a. power which has never been given to it before of altering a public Act of Parliament. The intention of the Bill apparently is to alter a private Act. But the Bill goes beyond that. I could have understood it if power were sought to alter the private Act which had been before this Scottish Commission. But this Bill gives power apparently for all time, so far as I can see, to suspend any public Act of Parliament, which I submit is most objectionable.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, there is one point on which I should be glad if we could be enlightened. It is not clear whether this Bill gives a general permission to the local authorities to override the provisions of the Town Planning Act, or whether what is contemplated is really a local relaxation of these provisions in this particular place and in regard to this particular scheme for providing buildings not of the ordinary type. If the measure is an ad hoc measure designed to meet the needs of the particular place, my objections would be diminished. Our main objection to being asked to pass Bills in this fashion remains, but the outrage would be a lesser one if we had reason to understand that what was involved was not a complete breaking down of the provisions of the existing law but a temporary relaxation in regard to a particular place and occasion.
EARL BEAUCHAMP: My Lords, it is impossible for His Majesty's Government to complain of the speech made by the noble Earl, which in the circumstances was perfectly natural. Unfortunately this Bill is not on the Table of the House, and the noble Earl, therefore; has not been able to make himself acquainted with the limitations imposed in the Bill. I am glad to be able to assure the noble Marquess that this is simply a Bill to facilitate the early provision of dwellings, etc., for, or for the convenience of, persons employed by or on behalf of the Admiralty at

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Rosyth Dockyard. In Clause 1 appear the words—
"it shall be lawful for the Town Council of Dunferailine, on obtaining the approval of the Board…"
Therefore your Lordships will see that the Bill is wholly limited in area and concerns only the provision of dwellings in this particular place. It. would be quite impossible for the consequences to follow which the noble Earl anticipated—namely, that there would be a power all over the country for the Local Government Board to override the provisions of the Act.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: I did not say that.
EARL BEAUCHAMP: At any rate the Bill is purely local in its application, and the Amendments to which the noble Earl referred were Amendments agreed to by both sides and moved on behalf of the Town Council of Dunfermline. Therefore it is not unfair to say that this has become an agreed Bill and is not objected to by the parties interested. It is desirable that it should be passed at once, so that the erection of these houses may be completed by the autumn. The matter is, I think, quite simple. There was a town planning scheme approved by the Local Government Board and the Town Council of Dunfermline, and it was proposed to build in certain places. The other day a Scottish Private Bill joint Committee considered the matter, and in consequence of some Amendments which were then made the tramway company resolved that they would not proceed with the line in the direction in which it was originally contemplated they would proceed. Therefore the land proposed to be dealt with cannot be utilised because of the absence of the tramway, and it is necessary to make considerable alterations in order that the buildings may be erected in some other place which will be suitable and where there will be access to the tramways. I can only repeat that we have no defence to offer to the protest of the noble Earl, and if he persists in his objection it will be necessary to postpone the Bill until after the Whitsuntide adjournment. I venture to hope, however, that your Lordships will not think that course necessary in view of the extremely limited operation of this Bill.
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Bill read 3a, and passed. (No 73.)

LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 1) BILL.
Returned from the Commons, with the Amendments, agreed to.
House adjourned during pleasure House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The following twenty-four Bills received the Royal Assent—

Copyright (British Museum).

Fugitive Offenders.

Marriage of British Subjects.

Police (Emergency Provisions).

Defence of the Realm (Amendment) (No. 3).

Army Act Amendment (No. 2).

Statutory Companies (Redeemable Stock).

British North America,

Special Constables (Scotland).

Fishery Harbours.

Immature Spirits (Restriction).

Housing (Rosyth Dockyard).

Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 1).

Caledonian Railway Order Confirmation.

Liverpool Corporation.

London, Chatham, and Dover Railway.

Ascot District Gas and Electricity.

Mersey Railway.

Deaf and Dumb Poor Asylum.

Ilfracombe Gas.

Neath Canal Navigation.

Great Central Railway.

Beamish's Divorce.

Denny's Divorce.

THE WHITSUNTIDE ADJOURNMENT.
LORD SANDHURST: My Lords, it is proposed that this House should adjourn for the same length of time as the House of Commons. It is not yet known for how long that House will rise. I therefore beg to move that this House do adjourn until the same day as that fixed by the other House.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at twenty-five minutes past Five o'clock, to Thursday the 3rd of June next, half-past Four o'clock.