MILITARY ADMINISTRATION IN INDIA.

HL Deb 05 May 1915 vol 18 cc927-35

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

My Lords, the first three Questions standing in my name on the Paper all affect military administration in India. Therefore I think it will be convenient to the noble Marquess if I ask him to reply to them together. My Questions are—

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether it is true that towards the end of last year about 2,000 women and 1,400 children belonging to regiments which had been sent to England arrived from their stations in India at Bombay Dock; that no preparations had been made to receive them, and no food prepared for them; that some of them had travelled for three days on rations for one day; that they sat about in the dock for more than 24 hours; that when they were put on board ship there was still no food ready for them; and, if so, what officer was responsible for these arrangements.

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether it is a fact that towards the close of last year the Breconshire Regiment were sent to garrison' Aden; that they duly arrived at Aden and found the barracks empty and waiting for them; that they were ordered to proceed to Bombay, which they duly did; and that after staying four days at Bombay they were sent back to Aden, and whether he will explain the meaning of this proceeding.

To ask the Secretary of State for India whether he can inform the House of the result of the consideration by the Government of India of the complaints made by the friends of the Territorial troops in respect of the rations and pay received by those troops in India.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE)

My Lords, the noble Earl's first Question relates to what happened to some 2,000 women and 1,400 children belonging to regiments which were sent from India to England, who had to be embarked at Bombay. The allegation made was that they were long delayed at various points, and that no proper provision as regards food was made for them. On hearing from the noble Earl that he had received representations of this kind, I was, of course, much concerned, and I telegraphed at once to the Viceroy. The Viceroy replies that he had received a number of reports very similar to those which had reached the noble Earl as to hardships suffered by families of British soldiers, and he immediately instituted a thorough investigation of the circumstances. As the result of that investigation the Viceroy tells me that there was, as a matter of fact, no lack of co-ordination, and that there was no avoidable personal hardship to any individuals. One report was that on their way down country no rations had been provided for these people. That report Lord Hardinge tells me is absolutely baseless. Further, every train which was bringing women and children down was met on its arrival at Bombay. There was one case in which a party reached Bombay a day earlier than the embarkation authorities had arranged. These were, however, met at the station and taken off to the family depôt at Bombay, that being a depôt which had been arranged by the Bombay authorities for the reception of people of this kind who had nowhere especially to go. Then as regards the supply of food at Bombay, arrangements were made that they should have it either at the railway station itself, or at this family depôt, or on board the transport when they arrived. There were, however, cases in which women refused to go on board the transport to have a meal until they had seen their baggage taken on board ship. We all know that among travellers there are always some persons who particularly dislike being at all parted from their effects, and those were evidently of that kind, with the result, I am afraid, that they must have been for some considerable time without a meal. Those very likely are some of the cases of which the noble Earl has heard. There was one case of a child which died after arrival at the docks. This child had been examined by a medical officer before it started and had been passed as fit for the voyage, and I think we are entitled to say that no incident of the journey had anything to do with the death of this child. There was only one party which was not embarked on the actual day of its arrival at Bombay, and that was the one I have mentioned, which arrived a day before the scheduled day and was taken to the family depôt. The Viceroy states, quite categorically, that there is no truth in the statement that any persons arrived on board ship and found no food available for them.

The noble Earl next asks what happened to the Breconshire regiment which was sent out to garrison Aden. According to his Question, the regiment arrived at Aden and found that the barracks were unoccupied and ready for them but they were ordered to proceed to Bombay, and after staying four days at Bombay they were sent back to Aden. The noble Earl not unnaturally asks, assuming the facts to be as he stated, why this particular proceeding occurred. But it is not the fact that there was at any time an intention that this regiment should land at Aden on the outward voyage, or that any mistake occurred by which it was sent on to Bombay and aimlessly brought back again. What happened was this. This regiment sailed on October 30 from Southampton. On board the same transport was the 9th battalion of the Middlesex regiment, which was under orders for Bombay, and on her return home this transport was to bring back from Aden the 1st battalion of the Royal Lancashire Fusiliers, they being relieved by the Breconshire regiment, which was the one that had the double journey. The arrangements, of course, were in the hands of the War Office, and there were three things that they might have done. They might have directed that the Breconshire regiment should be landed at Aden on the way out. The Lancashire Fusiliers were already at Aden; consequently it is not accurate to state that the barracks were empty. In that case either the Breconshires or the Lancashires would have had to go into temporary quarters under canvas until the transport returned empty from Bombay to take up the Lancashire regiment. Perhaps the noble Earl thinks that that is the course which ought to have been taken. Well, it was decided, rightly or wrongly, that to put either of these regiments under canvas at Aden would not be a convenient or desirable arrangement. The noble Earl, I am sure, knows Aden quite well, and he will realise that in the conditions of weather which usually obtain them—in fact, obtain there all the year round—a temporary camp could not be a very convenient or desirable home for a British regiment. If that was not to be done, the Lancashire Fusiliers might have been picked up on the outward voyage, taken to Bombay, and brought back from Bombay to England; but that course would have been open to the same kind of objection as that indicated in the noble Earl's Question. The third course, which was actually adopted, was that of taking the Breconshires on, bringing them back to Aden, and then embarking the Lancashire regiment. The reason for taking the last course, in the main, was that the baggage of the Middlesex regiment had to go on to Bombay and to be disembarked there, and in the absence of any special arrangements at Aden that baggage would have been at the bottom of the hold and confusion would therefore have resulted. The transport therefore sailed from England with the definite plan in view which was actually adopted. The Aden authorities would have found it possible, no doubt, to dispose somehow of the Breconshire regiment had it been disembarked, and I understand they were prepared to make that arrangement; but it was not thought advisable, because it would have involved a change of plans in the actual course of their being carried out. The noble Earl, I am sure, sees that the complicated movements of these three units with a single transport, involving changes of all their baggage and the like, could only be worked out on a settled plan, and I do not think, on examining the circumstances, that any more convenient plan than that actually carried out could have been adopted. There is also this further point which I would ask the noble Earl to bear in mind, that at that time all these transports had to be carefully convoyed, and that a pause at Aden on the way out to disembark a unit would have caused some inconvenience from the point of view of the convoy. Your Lordships must excuse me for giving this rather tedious narration of what occurred, but the matter is obviously of some importance and it is desirable to state exactly what happened. I think, on the whole, the authorities may be said to have done the best they could.

Then the noble Earl asks a Question about the complaints made by the "friends" of the Territorial troops. He means, I suppose, the relatives of those actually serving in the Territorial Force, for we are all, I hope, friends of the Territorial Force.

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

Yes, I mean the relatives.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

The noble Earl brought up this Question a little time ago, and I promised to consult the Government of India. I have done so, and I received a reply from the Government of India a few days ago. They say they have been giving very careful consideration to this question; they have looked into it with the utmost care; and I may say, in passing, that I shall be prepared very shortly to lay on the Table a Paper which I promised the noble Earl on the last occasion when he raised the matter to produce—namely, a tabular comparison of the different rates of pay, stoppages, and allowances of the Territorials at home and in India. That has practically been prepared, and I shall be able to lay it on the Table in a very short time. The Government of India agree that the Territorials are in some respects worse off as regards their total emoluments under peace conditions in India, partly owing to the considerable outlay required there for servants, house rent, and the like—that is to say, they are in a worse position than they would be at home under the active I service conditions which they have enjoyed since they have been called out in this country; and also the men do not get the full Service rations which they got in this country. It is evident, therefore, that there is something in the nature of a grievance to be remedied. As was pointed out in the last debate, they are also, taking them as a whole, worse off than Regulars in India because of the small proportion who are in a position to earn proficiency pay; and a large number of them have to make family allotments, and, of course their inexperience of Indian methods of all kinds makes life rather more costly than it would be to those who know the country well. Various courses might have been taken. One would have been to increase the number of those who would be in a position to receive proficiency pay. Another plan would have been for the Government to undertake a compulsory family allotment. Both those devices would have been subject to the criticism that, although they would benefit many, a considerable number would get nothing at all. Therefore the course which the Government of India prefer to take, and which is now being considered by us in consultation with the War Office, as, of course, it is necessary for various reasons to have their sanction and concurrence to any change of the kind, is to make a special Territorial daily allowance to officers in the junior ranks, and to all warrant officers, non-commissioned officers, and men. I will not attempt at this moment to state the precise figure which we should desire to give. That is one of the matters which is subject to consultation with the War Office. But it may be taken that an enhancement of pay of this nature will be made of a kind of which everybody in the ranks will get the benefit. The Government of India think that there is a case for making a special allowance to Territorials as distinct, from other soldiers. These Territorial units have gone out to India voluntarily, inspired by a patriotic spirit, and, as we all know, in consideration of the class from which they are drawn, in many cases at serious personal inconvenience to themselves. That appears to differentiate their case from that of soldiers of the Regular Army, who come out for long periods as an incident of their regular service and their contract, so to speak, in engaging, whereas the Territorials, of course, only come out for a limited period. It must further be remembered that these particular Territorials have for the time being lost their chance of serving at the Front. That is a further consideration to which I am sure we should all wish to attach due weight. They are serving their country as honourably in forming part of the necessary garrison of India, but to themselves it is sure to be a matter of disappointment that they are not actually engaged in one or other of the centres of war. It certainly does seem unfair that a soldier serving in India should be less well off than his fellow Territorial who is serving at home. The charge involved will be a considerable one. I cannot state the exact figure, but it will be something between £100,000 and £200,000, and I should not be surprised if it is nearer the second figure than the first; but it is clear, I think, that it is a charge which ought to be met, and I hope that the action of the Government of India in suggesting that it should be incurred is one which will meet with general approval. That, I think, exhausts all I have to say on these three Indian Questions.

THE EARL OF SELBORNE

My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Marquess for the great pains he has taken to answer these Questions. I think he will admit that they were all Questions which it was in the interests of the public service should be asked. As regards the treatment at Bombay of women and children belonging to regiments which had been sent to England, the answer which the noble Marquess gave is one which we have all heard with the greatest satisfaction. It amounts to this, that the statements which the Viceroy had heard and which had reached me were untrue, and that these women and children were provided with food in the train, at Bombay, and on board ship, and were not lilt stranded at the docks at Bombay but were taken to the family depôt. That is very satisfactory, and I am sorry that such unfounded statements should have been given such wide publicity.

Now I come to the remarkable movements in connection with the Breconshire regiment. If the noble Marquess had not been able to give any explanation of what had happened I think he will admit that the story was a peculiar one and one inviting comment. The conflict of evidence in this case is quite extraordinary. Yesterday I received a letter from an officer of the Breconshire regiment who is now in London, and I will read the parts that are pertinent to my Question. He writes— We reached Aden on November 23 and made every preparation to land, bringing up our baggage and ammunition— Which shows that there was no difficulty about that— Nobody came out to the ship, and after waiting some hours we sent ashore and then learned for the first time that we were not to land but to proceed to India. We stayed on board the ship in Aden Harbour for three whole days— Therefore the point about the time for landing and the convoy is met— The barracks which we subsequently occupied wore unoccupied at the time we first arrived there— This disposes of their occupation by the Lancashire regiment— We landed at Bombay on December 3 and encamped until December 8, when we embarked again for Aden, where we landed at last on December 16. It is obvious that both stories cannot be accurate.

I now pass to the question of the Territorials. I felt sure that the attention of the Viceroy and of the Secretary of State had only to be directed to the grievances of the Territorials in India, as voiced to their relations, to evoke their sympathy, and I think I am justified on behalf of all the relations and friends of the Territorials in thanking the noble Marquess and the Viceroy for the great attention they have given to this matter, and for their promise to do something substantial to make the position of the Territorial troops in India better both as regards their rations and their pay.

VISCOUNT MIDLETON

I should like to ask the noble Marquess whether the tabulated statement of allowances which he proposes to lay on the Table will include those of the medical officers. I believe that of all classes who have gone to India with the Territorials there are none who have made greater sacrifices than the medical officers. Therefore I hope that the noble Marquess will be able to tell us that they will be included.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I will make inquiry as to the particular case of the medical officers. The tabular statement which I am going to lay deals with the comparison between pay, allowances, and compulsory deductions at home and in India respectively in the case of privates. It does not touch the matter of officers at all. Therefore the question which the noble Viscount has asked is in quite a separate category.

VISCOUNT MIDLETON

The noble Marquess, of course, knows that departmental officers as a rule have not accompanied the divisions to India, whereas the medical officers have been hound to go.