§ THE EARL OF SELBORNE rose to call attention to the reply of Lord Islington on February 24 on the subject of certificates of pilotage held by Germans in the United Kingdom, and to ask whether the Board of Trade will henceforth confine the grant of certificates of pilotage for the River Thames and the coasts of the United Kingdom to natural born British subjects.
§ The noble Earl said: My Lords, there was an old-standing controversy between many naval officers and the Board of Trade in past years as to whether the Board should issue certificates of pilotage to other than natural born British subjects, 645 but the Board of Trade up to the time of the war had always refused to withhold these certificates from aliens. On February 24 last I asked the noble Lord the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies a question as to the number of certificates of pilotage for the River Thames or for any part of the United Kingdom held by German or Austrian subjects at the time of the declaration of war, and his answer was that five pilotage certificates for the London district and three for the Humber were held by German subjects. It is obvious that those pilots may conceivably have been of real use to the German Admiralty, or they may be during the course of this war. We hope not. But it cannot be otherwise contended than that the existence of German subjects with such a knowledge of our coastal waters might, in conceivable circumstances, be a very important matter in the eyes of the German Admiralty. I ask His Majesty's Government whether, in the light of the experience of this war, the Board of Trade are not prepared to reconsider this question. I do not wish to go into it at length to-night. I merely desire to ascertain what the attitude of the Government is, and whether the Board of Trade are still of opinion that it is a wise policy to issue certificates for pilotage in respect of our ports and coastal waters to other than natural born British subjects.
§ THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (LORD ISLINGTON)My Lords, I am hopeful that the formal answer which I hold in my hand from the Board of Trade will sufficiently reply to the question put by the noble Earl, but if there is any further point, after I have read this answer, upon which he desires information I shall be very pleased to explain it if it lies in my power to do so. So far as the information of the Board of Trade goes, there are only ten naturalised British subjects out of a total of 2,538 masters and mates holding pilotage certificates, and of these none are of German or Austrian birth. The Board have no power to deprive naturalised British subjects of rights to which they, in common with British born subjects, are entitled. Since December 10, 1914, all pilotage certificates granted to masters and mates by the Corporation of Trinity House, London, for the London pilotage district have been suspended until further notice, and this is the case also in other districts.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEWith great respect to the noble Lord he has not answered my question, which was this—whether the Board of Trade will henceforth confine the granting of certificates of pilotage for the River Thames and the coasts of the United Kingdom to natural born British subjects.
§ LORD ISLINGTONThe latter part of my answer met time question put by the noble Earl—namely, that all grants of pilotage certificates were suspended on December 10 and Will continue so during the duration of the war. A master or mate of a ship in possession of a pilotage certificate and who hitherto, in such possession, could steer his ship into any of the ports for which he had that certificate, no longer can do so during the war, and the ship will have to employ a pilot with a licence.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEThat only answers a small part of my question. What the noble Lord has told me is that the Board of Trade have suspended for the rest of the war the issue of such certificates. I am glad to hear it. But I want to know whether the Board of Trade are prepared for the future, after the war, to discontinue the grant of certificates of pilotage to aliens.
§ LORD ISLINGTONUnder the Pilotage Act, 1913, it was laid down, in Section 23, that a certificate should not be granted to a master or mate of a ship unless he is a British subject. There are, however, exceptions to that under the 1913 Act. If the noble Earl will look at Section 26, I think it is, he will see that certain renewals of certificates may be allowed to those who, prior to the year 1906, had such certificates; but in a subsequent schedule of the Act it will be found that in those cases where renewals are allowed to masters and mates who are other than British subjects they are only granted over a comparatively limited area. In Section 24, subsection (2), there is a long list of ports in respect of which masters and mates who are aliens are excluded from this privilege. Under the 1913 Act the only certificates allowed to aliens are those which the pilotage authorities grant in the form of renewals to men who had certificates previous to 1906, and, as I have said, the certificates are confined to a limited area, the holders being debarred from going into the ports named in the schedule to the Act.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEI am obliged to the noble Lord for his answer, and if he will be good enough to send me the reference I shall be glad.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNThe answer given by the noble Lord the Under-Secretary for the Colonies, as I understood it, related to British subjects, but the question put to him by the noble Earl was whether the Board of Trade would in future confine the grant of certificates of pilotage to natural born British subjects. That is a much tighter definition, and refers to quite a different class of men.
§ LORD ISLINGTONAs I explained in the formal answer which I gave just now, the Board of Trade have no power to deprive naturalised British subjects of rights to which they, in common with British born subjects, are entitled.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNThe noble Earl asked whether the Board of Trade would hereafter confine these certificates to natural born British subjects. That is a point which the noble Lord has not touched.