Lords Sitting of 24 June 1915

Preamble
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:
Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 2).
Gas and Water Provisional Orders (No. 1).
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (TRAMWAYS AND IMPROVEMENTS) BILL.
  WEARDALE AND CONSETT WATER BILL.
  Read 2a, and committed: The Committees to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
SKEGNESS URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
CONSOLIDATION BILLS.
First Report of the Joint Committee made, and to be printed. (No. 99.)
GOVERNMENT OF INDIA BILL. [H.L.]
Reported from the Joint Committee with Amendments, and re-committed to a Committee of the Whole House, and to be printed as amended. (No. 100.)

RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
Navy (Supplementary Estimate, 1915–1916)—An estimate of the additional number of Officers and men required to be voted for the Navy for the year ending 31st March 1916: Presented (by command) and ordered to lie on the Table.
India (Loans raised in India)—Return of all loans raised in India chargeable on the revenues of India, outstanding at the commencement of the half-year ended 31st March 1915, &c.:
Finance—Finance Accounts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland for the Financial Year 1914–1915, ended 31st March 1915:
Post Office (Foreign and Colonial Parcel Post, Canary Islands)—The Foreign and Colonial Parcel Post Amendment (No. 71) Warrant, 1915, dated 11th May 1915:
Electric Lighting Acts, 1882–1909 (Proceedings)—Report by the Board of Trade respecting the applications to and the proceedings of the Board under the said Acts during the past year:
Shops Act, 1912—Orders made by the following Councils and confirmed by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, affecting certain classes of shops within their respective areas—

1. Cornwall County Council (Troon Village);

2. Glamorgan County Council (Parishes of Pyle and Tythegston Higher);

3. Tottenham Urban District Council (Tottenham (remainder) area of Tottenham Urban District):

Laid before the House (pursuant to Act) and ordered to lie on the Table.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Moved, That Standing Order No. XXXIX be suspended for this day's sitting (The Lord President (Al. Crewe)); agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 3) BILL.
Brought from the Commons, endorsed with the Certificate from the Speaker that the Bill is a Money Bill within the meaning of the Parliament Act, 1911; read 1a, and to be printed.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE): I asked your Lordships to suspend Standing Order No. XXXIX particularly in respect of this Bill. As the House is aware, from time to time until the Appropriation Act authorises the full expenditure of the money voted for the service of the year it is the custom to pass Bills of this character empowering the Treasury to issue such sums of money as have been voted for the

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various services. As a rule one of these measures is passed in the month of March and the other one towards the end of an ordinary session, just before the Appropriation Bill comes up to your Lordships' House. But in this abnormal year expenditure is so frequent and so large that it is necessary now to ask your Lordships to pass another of these Bills. I therefore ask your Lordships to read the Bill a second time and to pass it through its remaining stages to-day.
Moved (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Marquess of Crewe.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Bill read 3a, and passed. (No. 97.)

MILK AND DAIRIES ACTS POSTPONEMENT BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Tuesday next (The Lord Hylton). (No. 101.)

ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 5) BILL. (No. 102.)
GAS AND WATER PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL. (No. 103.)
LAND DRAINAGE PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL. (No. 104.)
LAND DRAINAGE (OUSE) PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL. (No. 105.)
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 1) BILL. (No. 106.)
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.

IRVINE AND DISTRICT WATER BOARD (EMERGENCY POWERS) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL. [H.L.]
Returned from the Commons, agreed to.
TRAMWAYS PROVISIONAL ORDERS BILL.
Amendments reported (according to Order), and Bill to be read 3a on Tuesday next.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL.
Amendments reported (according to Order), and Bill to be read 3a on Tuesday next.
MASSY'S DIVORCE BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a (according to Order), and passed, and sent to the Commons.

CUSTOMS (EXPORTATION RESTRICTION) BILL.
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE CIVIL LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE): My Lords, in asking the House to read this Bill a second time I do not think it necessary to weary your Lordships with any prolonged statement on the details and technicalities involved in this matter. The question of trade at this moment is a peculiarly difficult one, and as far as possible we have to aim at what are to some extent two rather discordant policies. In the first place we have to aim at restraint of enemy trade, and in the second place, as far as we possibly can, at the promotion of our own; and I think your Lordships will agree that the first consideration is the one which ought to be paramount in our minds.
Under the present system there is published a list of articles which are prohibited from going into neutral countries. That list is already an extensive one. It was partly compiled in pursuance of Acts passed prior to the outbreak of war, and as time has gone on it has been found necessary that the list should be increased. The present system is that it is possible to allow an article prohibited under the list to be sent to a neutral country under a licence issued by the War Trade Department, which is under the presidency of my noble friend Lord Emmott. That has, I believe, involved a great amount of work; it is a task of considerable delicacy and difficulty, but it has been carried out with a marked degree of success. That is the general system which is in operation. It is obvious that the difficulty arises when the article in question reaches the neutral country to secure that it shall not be allowed to pass through to an enemy destination. The task which has devolved upon my noble friend and his Department has been to judge, from the character and standing of the consignee, whether a licence should be given. This system must necessarily to some extent create delay and a certain amount of congestion at the ports. Consequently a considerable amount of inconvenience has been caused not only to British traders but to traders in neutral countries. This was especially so in the case of Holland, and led by degrees to the formation there of the Netherlands Over-sea Trust, which undertook the responsi-

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bility of receiving goods and of taking every step they could to see that prohibited goods which had passed through their country under a licence should not find their destination in enemy territory. An additional safeguard is that the whole of their transactions are to be subject to the approval and the investigation of the British Consul.
This system has, I believe, worked well as far as licensed exports are concerned, and it is now proposed that the system should be extended so as to include no, prohibited goods. The Netherlands Oversea Trust have agreed to accept consignments of all goods, and have given their undertaking that such goods shall be limited to the neutral country and shall not find their way through to the enemy country. We have, I think, experience and information enough to justify us in asking the House to sanction this. It is not really a departure from any previously recognised principle, but an extension of principles which have already been adopted in connection with this subject. Taken in conjunction with other legislation this Bill will enable us to prohibit the export of any goods; it will enable us to confine the prohibition to any particular country; and, further than that—and this is the particular power which will be obtained under this Bill—it will enable us to prohibit goods going to any country except to a particular consignee.
If, as I hope will be the case, your Lordships allow this Bill to be read a second time and to be passed through its remaining stages at this afternoon's sitting so that it can receive the Royal Assent forthwith, it is intended by Order in Council to make the Netherlands Oversea Trust the consignee in respect of all goods passing from this country to Holland. Naturally no reference is made to any one country in particular, but as a result of the machinery set up by this Bill it will be possible by Order in Council, if the Bill passes, to make Holland the consignee. It will be further possible, I hope, later on, when the principle gets more firmly established, to have in other neutral countries similar bodies to that which has been set up in Holland, which should act as sole consignees in respect of that particular territory. The machinery proposed to be set up will be carried out through the Customs, which possess the necessary knowledge and information to enable them to do so. I admit that the system may not be as watertight
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in every respect as one might desire. At any rate when this Bill is passed we shall be able to take another step in advance in helping our own exporters to carry on their business, at the same time having a reasonable amount of security that goods which go from this country into neutral countries will not be allowed to pass through to the service of the enemy.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Duke of Devonshire.)
On Question, Bill read 2a.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3a, and passed.

THE ROYAL MARINES.
LORD LATYMER LORD LATYMER had the following Question on the Paper—
To ask His Majesty's Government whether officers of the Royal Marines are now competent to sit on Courts-Martial on their own men when held on board ship.
The noble Lord said: My Lords, I have been requested by the noble Duke who represents the Admiralty in this House not to put my Question. He thinks that it would not be in the public interest that it should be pressed at the present time, and, of course, in such days as these one can only acquiesce in whatever one is asked in that way. But I wish to make a remark or two on the subject without asking the Question. I know that the noble Duke has taken a kindly interest in the Royal Marines, and I hope that he will bear in mind that the Admiralty have always what I would call shirked and burked questions of this kind with regard to the Royal Marines. I do not for one moment mean to draw a likeness between the present and past occasions of the same sort, but I trust that the noble Duke as time goes on will cause inquiry to be made into the many grievances under which the Royal Marines suffer. I would also draw attention to the fact that there is no representative of the Royal Marines on the Board of Admiralty, and therefore they have no voice in the internal arrangements of their Force. No doubt public interest is a very important matter, but there is one other matter which is of quite as great importance—that is that justice should be done to all sections of His Majesty's Forces.
THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE: I am much obliged to my noble friend for allowing his Question to be postponed. I can assure him that there is no antipathy whatever to the Royal Marines, and that any references which he makes concerning them will be sympathetically received.

ILLEGITIMATE BIRTHS.
THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY rose to ask His Majesty's Government whether the Local Government Board can furnish any statistics relating to the alleged probability of an increase of illegitimate births in this country owing to war conditions.
The most rev. Primate said: My Lords, in asking the Question which stands in my name I desire to be allowed to preface it by a few words of explanation as to the circumstances which have rendered it, in my judgment, desirable that we should have an official answer to this particular inquiry. Most of your Lordships are familiar with the facts. Some few months ago there was considerable circulation of representations and reports to the effect that the war conditions, as they are called, in England to-day—alluding especially to the billeting of soldiers in towns and villages—would have undoubtedly the consequence, before many months were over, of a particular increase in the number of illegitimate births in all parts of the country. The reports took a very substantial form, and specific statements about particular places in which even the numbers, amounting in some instances to many hundreds of cases about which definite knowledge was supposed to be already available, were current. In those circumstances the attention of those who, like myself, have some central responsibility with regard to moral as well as social questions was constantly called to the topic.
We entertained from the first, some of us, a good deal of doubt as to whether the reports which were so widely current had a substantial basis in fact, but it was impossible to speak in general terms about it with any degree of knowledge, and we were naturally most cautious as to expressing an opinion on the matter. We could only say that, familiar as we were with that kind of subject and with the
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moral problems which arise in town and country places—and I was in communication with all the Bishops in England on the subject—we were unable to find sufficient ground for giving credence to the allegations which were made. Further, I felt that it was unsatisfactory that such a matter should be in the hands simply of an ecclesiastical authority in the way of inquiry. I therefore ventured to ask for the co-operation of certain ladies and gentlemen, not all members of the Church of England, and we agreed that it was desirable to invite that great organisation known as the National Union of Women Workers, which is neither politically nor denominationally restricted, to appoint a few ladies to look into the subject in different parts of the country.
The President of the National Union of Women Workers, though it is a completely undenominational body, happens to be Mrs. Creighton, widow of the late Bishop of London, a most capable and efficient worker and a student of all social problems. She, with those whom that society associated with her, looked into the question in all parts of England. They appointed a lady who went from place to place to make investigation; and they themselves have branches of their organisation in almost every part of England, and received reports from them. In the result they drew up and sent to the two Archbishops a full report of such information as they were able to obtain. But we felt that their report would be very much weightier if it were submitted to a larger committee of men and women conversant with these subjects who should weigh the report, test what seemed to them to be its value, and then themselves make a report to the public upon what the outcome was of the consideration they had given to the work of those investigators. That committee was a large one, presided over by the Archbishop of York, and to it was submitted the report drawn up by the investigators of the National Union of Women Workers. The result has been in the hands of the public for some little time in an abbreviated form. I am not aware that it has had any wide circulation in its full form, but those of your Lordships who have looked into the matter at all will have seen what the outcome was
We were abundantly justified in the scepticism we had entertained as to the

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nature of the allegations made, and as to the basis on which they rested. We found that not only were those statements incapable of being verified, but some were of a kind of which it was impossible to understand the origin. Statements, for example, were made to the effect that in particular Poor Law unions the number of unmarried expectant mothers was so large that it would he necessary to build new wards in addition to those existing in the infirmaries or workhouses. There were other allegations of the same kind. In one of these eases, in which we were told that the number of apprehended births was so largo that new wards had been already acquired, we found there was not only no requirement of new wards but not one case in the existing wards. There were others cases in which the numbers of expectant mothers were put at 600, 700, and 800: these were reduced to 11, 8, and 3 respectively, or something of that kind. I do not profess to know and do not offer any explanation as to how the original figures had seen the light. But the matter was obviously one of supreme importance, and and others with me felt that the report of the Archbishop's Committee, based upon the investigations of the ladies I have mentioned, would of itself be no doubt important, but that it would be immensely increased in value wore we able to ascertain front the Local Government Board whether any inquiry which they had made substantiated or refuted the kind of conclusions to which the committee had arrived. I therefore venture to ask tonight whether the Local Government Board can give us any information supplementary to what we have obtained by voluntary investigation—most careful and most thorough-going, but of course quite inferior to the kind of inquiry which can be conducted by a Government authority.
I am particularly anxious that I should not be supposed, as spokesman in this matter, to be saying that we are satisfied that all is perfectly right, or that we are able to prove that there is no ground whatever for such apprehensions as were entertained. That they were immensely exaggerated is absolutely certain, because the statistics given were capable of being tested and, being tested, are found to break down entirely. But do not let it be supposed that we are therefore saying that there is no apprehension justifiable of the kind that there will be some more ille-
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gitimate births, or that we are the least professing to say there has been no wrong doing of the sort which would lead to such births. All we say is that the statements made have broken down on investigation, and as far as the knowledge now in our possession extends we have not the slightest reason to believe there will be any material increase during the coming months to the ordinary number of illegitimate births that take place throughout the country. It is possible that something may come to light of which we have no knowledge. It is possible even that there may have been some misapprehension on the part of some of those who have made inquiry, or that mistaken information may have been given to them. All that we state is that the inquiries we have made fail to substantiate the statements which were published, and we are particularly anxious to know whether the reassuring report which we have received from voluntary sources can be supplemented from official sources in a way that the Government alone can do.
LORD HYLTON: My Lords, the Local Government Board have no statistics in their possession at the moment which would justify them in saying that the proportion of illegitimate to legitimate births in the current year will be affected by what are called war conditions. The Board have instituted special inquiries in various directions with a view to answering the most rev. Primate's inquiry, and the results of all the inquiries converge to one conclusion—namely, that the allegations which have been made and to which the Archbishop referred are grossly exaggerated. The General Inspectors of the Board were asked to make inquiries in their districts; Miss Wamsley, one of the woman Inspectors, was directed to make full investigation in six selected towns; and further inquiries have been made front medical officers of health, from the Salvation Army, and from other sources. The reports of the General Inspectors with one accord indicate that, so far as present evidence goes, there is not likely to be any alarming increase in the number of illegitimate births, and the replies received from the local medical officers of health are to the same effect. Of the information obtained from societies particular reference may be made to that from the Salvation Army, the Charity Organisation Society, and the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to

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Children. The Charity Organisation Society circulated a letter to the Press as a result of their inquiries, in which they state—
"The replies from forty-four centres are unanimous in describing the common report as a great exaggeration."
They give some instances, and add—
"Furthermore many inquirers are doubtful whether even this very small increase in the illegitimate birth rate can fairly be attributed to soldiers, as in many places large numbers of strangers have come into the district for the building of hats, etc."
The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children state—
"Out of 202 inspectors, we have received replies from 161, and almost every one says that, after making most careful inquiries, there is little or no likelihood of there being an increase in illegitimate births."
The information from all sources, in so far as it is definite, indicates that there is not likely to be a very large increase of illegitimate births.
From more than one quarter it has been stated that the allegations which have been made have done harm, and since they appear to be without foundation it is important that they should be rebutted. I venture to think the House will agree that the fact that the most rev. Primate has put this Question and made the remarks he did on the subject will have a valuable effect in the country in this direction. In dealing with this question people are apt to overlook the fact that normally the number of illegitimate births in this country is considerable. In England and Wales the number in 1913 was nearly 38,000; in Scotland in 1912 the number was nearly 9,000; and in Ireland, in 1913, nearly 3,000.
I may, I hope, be allowed to quote one or two extracts from the reports received on this subject from medical officers of health. The medical officer for West Kent states that the number of expected births was exaggerated, and the medical officer for Bromley says that the statement that 800 were expected was characterised as an "impudent scandal." The Luton medical officer of health could find no cases reported or expected. In Portsmouth the statement that 400 extra births were
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expected was found to be quite untrue. The reports received from the Salvation Army and from the Charity Organisation Society are to the same effect. I hope that the statement I have made of the result of the inquiries conducted by the Local Government Board will satisfy the most rev. Primate that the official information, so far as it has been received, entirely corroborates the conclusions arrived at by his own committee.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The following sixteen Bills received the Royal Assent—

Consolidated Fund (No. 3).

Customs (Exportation Restriction).

Forfar Gas Order Confirmation.

Great North of Scotland Railway Order Confirmation.

Highland Railway Order Confirmation.

Irvine and District Water Board (Emergency Powers) Order Confirmation.

Brighton and Hove Gas.

Falmouth Docks:

Ormskirk Gas and Electricity.

Metropolitan District Railway.

Seaforth and Sefton Junction Railway.

Streatley and Goring Bridge.

Bristol Tramways.

Halifax Corporation.

Sheffield Corporation (Tramways).

West Gloucestershire Water.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, I beg to move that the House do adjourn, except for Judicial business, until Tuesday next, June 29.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at a quarter before Six o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock.