§ Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
§ Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Marquess of Lansdowne.)
§ On Question, Motion agreed to.
§ House in Committee accordingly.
§ [The EARL of DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
§ Clause 1 agreed to.
§ Clause 2:
§ Registration authorities and districts.
§ 2. The Registrar-General acting under the directions of the Local Government Board shall be the central registration authority, and the Common Council of the City of London and the councils of metropolitan and municipal boroughs, and of urban and rural districts, and the Council of the Scilly Islands shall be the local registration authorities for their respective areas, and each such area shall be a separate registration district.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI beg to move to add to this clause the following words, "but any such council may delegate to a committee of the council all or any of their powers as such local registration authority as aforesaid." This will enable the local registration authorities to delegate their powers to committees. It appears that this power is not enjoyed by these bodies, and it is thought better that it should be given to them. A great deal of the work in connection with this Bill will be better done by a small committee than by the full body of the council.
§
Amendment moved—
Clause 2, page 1, line 16, after ("district") insert ("but any such council may delegate to a committee of the council all or any of their powers as such local registration authority as aforesaid").—(The Marquess of Lansdowne.)
§ EARL FORTESCUEMay I ask the noble Marquess whether the committees appointed under this Amendment would be limited to members of the councils appointing them? It is anticipated that there 424 will be a great deal of voluntary assistance offered in connection with this Bill, and it is possible in some cases that councils might be glad to co-opt persons on to their committees who were not members of their body. Would these words cover that, or would the Government approve of that?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI am afraid I cannot tell my noble friend whether the council would have power to go outside its own members in this case. That is a legal point which I am not able to dispose of. But I feel quite sure that any assistance forthcoming will be gladly availed of in a case of the kind.
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clause 3 agreed to.
§ Clause 4:
§ Duty to fill up and return, ferns,
§ 4.—(1) For the purpose of enabling such a register to be compiled it shall he the duty of every such person as aforesaid, within the prescribed time, to fill up and sign a form showing the following particulars—
- (a) name; place of residence; age; whether single, married, or widowed; number of dependants (if any), distinguishing wife, children, and other dependants; profession or occupation (if any); name and business address of employer (if any), and nature of employer's business; and (in the case of a person born abroad) nationality, if not British; and
- (b) whether the work on which he is employed is work for or under any Government Department;
- (c) whether he is skilled in and able and willing to perform any work other than the work (if any) at which he is at the time employed, and, if so, the nature thereof.
§ (2) The central registration authority shall cause forms to be prepared and issued to the local registration authorities, and every local registration authority shall, in accordance with instructions from the Local Government Hoard, cause the forms to be distributed so as to secure that, as far as possible, a sufficient number of forms shall be left at every dwelling-house within their registration district, and shall also give public notice as to the places within the registration district where forms can be obtained.
§ (3) The local registration authority shall also make arrangements for the collection, in the prescribed manner and within the prescribed times, of forms when filled up and signed.
§ LORD HAVERSHAMI should like to ask the noble Marquess what is exactly meant by the words "such person as aforesaid" in the early part of sub- 425 section (1), and whether this expression alludes to all those people mentioned in Clause 1. That is three clauses on, and this is an extraordinary way of alluding to them. I should prefer the words "every person to whom this Act applies." Again, who are "dependants"? A dependant might be the "poor relation," or a groom or a footman, or anyone else. We have no definition clause in this Bill, so I do not understand who dependants are. But perhaps the noble Marquess will allow me to move, instead of "every such person as alotesaid," that the words "every person to whom this Act applies" should be inserted.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 1, line leave out ("every such person as aforesaid") and insert ("every person to whom this Act applies").—(Lord Haversham.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI rather hesitate to accept this Amendment. I think the meaning of the clause is obvious. The persons, aforesaid are surely the persons limo whose ranks the register is to be formed—that is, the persons who are described in Clause 1.
§ LORD HAVERSHAMThen I will withdraw the Amendment. But I should like to ask the noble Marquess to explain how many people are to fill up these forms. Is the householder to fill up the form for the whole family and include his wife, chiidren, and dependants, or are all those between the ages of fifteen and sixty-five to make out their own forms, including the wife?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEThe intention of the Bill is that the form should be sent to each individual person and filled up by that person. I know it has been suggested that the same purpose could be accomplished by sending a form to each occupier, but that proceeding has been deliberately set on one side.
§ LORD HAVERSHAMEvery person over fifteen and under sixty-five is to have it separate form?
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§ LORD HAVERSHAMWould the noble Marquess explain what is meant by the word "dependants"?
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI am afraid I cannot give my noble friend a legal definition of the meaning of the word, but I think we all know pretty well what is meant. My noble friend must remember that this register is not to be a document propounded with scientific accuracy. What we want is a rough-and-ready inventory of the people in their different classes, and I am sure it will not be difficult to arrive at a reasonable meaning of the word "dependant."
§ Clause 4 agreed to.
§ Clauses 5 to 9 agreed to.
§ Clause 10:
§ Duty of employers to furnish information.
§ 10. For the purposes of facilitating the compilation and maintenance of the register, it shall he the duty of any employer of labour (including heads of Government departments) to supply to any registration authority such information as may be prescribed in respect of such persons in his employment as are required to be registered under this Act.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI have to move in Clause 10, after the word "information," to insert the words "and render such assistance." The Amendment only very slightly extends the present wording of the clause. It seems, indeed, quite obvious that if employers of labour are expected to supply information it is not unfair to ask them to supply such assistance as they may be able to give. I beg to move.
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Amendment moved—
Clause 10, page 4, line 15, after ("information") insert ("and render such assistance").—(The Marquess of Lansdowne.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 10, as amended, agreed to.
§ Clauses 11 to 14 agreed to.
§ Clause 15:
§ Application to Ireland.
§ 15. This Act shall apply to Ireland to such extent and subject to such modifications as are hereinafter mentioned—
§ (1) The Lord Lieutenant may by Order apply section one of this Act with the necessary modifications to Ireland or to any area or areas in Ireland specified in the Order:
427§ (2) The register for Ireland, or as the case may be for any such area or areas as aforesaid, shall be formed under the directions of the Lord Lieutenant by the Registrar-General of Births, Deaths and Marriages in Ireland (in this section referred to as the Registrar-General for Ireland) whose duty it shall be to compile and maintain the register from information at his disposal or furnished by any other officer or department of the Government pursuant to such directions or by the council of any county or of any county borough which may be desirous of assisting in the formation of the register:
§ (3) The register shall contain as respects the persons registered the particulars set forth in paragraphs (a), (b), and (c), of subsection (1) of section four of this Act, so far as the same have been ascertained from the information at. the disposal of or furnished to the Registrar-General for Ireland as aforesaid and the Registrar-General for Ireland shall tabulate the contents and make them available for such purposes as may he ordered by the Lord Lieutenant:
§ (4) The expenses of the Lord Lieutenant and of the Registrar-General fur Ireland in carrying this Act into operation, shall to such an extent as the Treasury may sanction be defrayed out of money provided by Parliament:
§ (5) There shall be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament towards expenses incurred, with the sanction of the Local Government Board for Ireland, by county councils and county borough councils in assisting in the formation of the register, allowances on such scale as the Treasury may approve, and such expenses, so far as not covered by the allowances, shall be defrayed in the case of a county council out of the poor rate as a county at large charge, and in the case of a county borough council out of the rate or fund applicable to the purposes of the Public Health (Ireland) Acts, 1878 to 1907:
§ (6) Save as provided in this section, the foregoing provisions of this Act shall not apply to Ireland.
THE EARL OF MAYOThe noble Marquess will remember that I drew attention on Second Reading to this clause, which deals with Ireland, and to the fact that in areas to which the Lord Lieutenant had not applied the Bill those people who wished to register would not be able to do so. I have sent the noble Marquess an Amendment to meet this point, and I hope he will be able to accept it.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 6, line 40, after subsection (2), insert as a new subsection: "Any person or persons residing in any area or areas which do not conic under the operations of this Act as applied to Ireland shall on application to the Registrar-General he provided with the necessary forms for registration."—(The Earl of Mayo.)
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI have considerable sympathy with the object which my noble friend has in view. What I understand him to desire is that in Irish areas to which the Act has not been applied by the action of the Lord Lieutenant and in which consequently there is no register, persons desiring to place their services at the disposal of the Government should have an opportunity of obtaining registration forms, and should have their names recorded as persons who wished to make themselves useful in whatever manner may be open to them. I do not think that the wording suggested by my noble friend would quite meet the case, because there would in fact be, as the Bill now stands, no Register at all in the areas which my noble friend is discussing. But I think I can suggest to him words which will answer his purpose, and I will read them. I propose to add as a new subsection these words, "As respects areas in Ireland to which section 1 of this Act does not apply, lists of persons desiring to be registered may, if the Lord Lieutenant thinks proper, be compiled by the Registrar-General for Ireland under the direction of the Lord Lieutenant, and the Lord Lieutenant for that purpose may cause forms to be issued to any such persons on their application." I think that will do quite completely what my noble friend desires.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNENo; they could apply to the Registrar.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEI presume they would. But they will find the means of ascertaining to whom to go.
LORD CLONBROCKI am exceedingly glad that this Amendment has been brought forward, because there has been great disappointment in various parts of Ireland on the part of people who were anxious to offer their services to His Majesty's Government. This will be a great relief to such people, to exclude whom from the operations of the Act by reason of the accident of residence would be very hard.
LORD TENTERDENI beg to second most strongly this Amendment, which very largely meets the objection that I raised in the House yesterday to the manner in which the Bill is to apply to Ireland. This Amendment will give all the Irish people are opportunity of showing their loyalty to this country in a time of great stress and crisis. I think the new subsection has been very aptly worded by the noble Marquess, and I am sure it will make the Bill more complete and more satisfactory to the Irish people in general.
THE LORD CHAMMANI understand that Lord Mayo will withdraw his Amendment in order that the one read by Lord Lansdowne may be substituted.
§ Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
§
Amendment moved—
Page 6, line 40, after subsection (2), insert as a new subsection: "As respects areas in Ireland to which section 1 of this Act does not apply, lists of persons desiring to be registered may, if the Lord Lieutenant thinks proper, be compiled by the Registrar-General for Ireland under the
430
direction of the Lord Lieutenant, and the Lord Lieutenant for that purpose may muse forms to be issued to any such persons on their applicatMo."— (The Marquess of Lansdowne.)
§ On Question, Amendment agreed to.
§ Clause 15, as amended, agreed to.
§ Remaining clause agreed to.
§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNEMy Lords, I am told that it will make a great difference if this Bill call pass through its remaining stages to-night. I feel that I have no right to press that upon the House, but there have been very few Amendments put down and not very much criticism. If your Lordships would allow us to take the remaining stages this evening I should be very glad.
§ Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended: Amendments reported: Bill read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
§ House adjourned at twenty minutes before Six o'clock, till Tomorrow, half-past Ten o'clock.