THE WAR.

HL Deb 06 January 1915 vol 18 cc231-62

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (EARL KITCHENER)

My Lords, when I last addressed your Lordships six weeks ago General Joffre had just sent up strong reinforcements to our fighting line, thus enabling Field-Marshal Sir John French to shorten the line of front he held and to give some relief to his hard-pressed troops who had been so continuously working in the trenches. The Germans having failed in their attempt to penetrate our line, their Staff in the last week of November was busily engaged in transferring from the Western theatre of war several Divisions which were required to meet the critical situation about Lodz in Poland which I then described to your Lordships. This movement of troops from West to East was continued through the first week of December, but the enemy in the Western theatre was left in sufficient strength to hold the elaborate system of parallel lines of entrenchments and with the support of an effective though reduced Artillery to contain the Allied troops.

During the month of December the Allied forces have made progress at various points. Very gallant efforts have been made to take the enemy's trenches and to recapture trenches temporarily lost. The tide of battle has ebbed and flowed with varying success to either side. The French Army, in spite of the very unfavourable weather, has made noteworthy progress East of Rheims and in Southern Alsace. The operations have for some time, however, resolved themselves into a phase of siege warfare and every up-to-date invention for throwing bombs and grenades into the trenches has been constantly used. Our troops have been subjected to the hardships inseparable from a winter campaign, but, by a system of reliefs, the severe strain which the men have undergone in the trenches has been minimised. Our soldiers, needless to say, have exhibited a constant cheerfulness and resource which redound to their credit.

Although, as I said, there has been a continuous series of trench operations, the only important engagement between the British Forces and the Germans was on December 20, when the trenches held by the Indian troops were violently attacked at Givenchy. The Indians were, to a certain extent, surprised by the enemy and some of their trenches were captured, only to be retaken the following day with considerable loss to the enemy by the First Army Corps which had been in reserve. The line thus reassumed has since been entirely maintained, and the Indian units have enjoyed a period of relief from the trenches. Sir John French's force has been increased by a number of Territorial units and by another Division attached to which is a fine Canadian regiment.

In the Eastern theatre at the end of November the German Army, reinforced by troops transferred from the Western theatre, were able to extricate themselves, at great cost of life, from the critical situation in which they then were about Lodz. Assuming the offensive on the left bank of the Vistula, they succeeded in advancing by the middle of December to the line of the Rivers Bzura and Rawka, some 30 miles west of Warsaw. Despite repeated severe attacks, our gallant Russian comrades have for more than a fortnight frustrated violent German efforts to advance any nearer to Warsaw. German aspirations in Poland have thus suffered a severe check, and it is evident that the Germans now realise the infinite difficulty of winter operations in Russia and are specially hampered by their faulty line of communication. Their casualties, moreover, have been very numerous.

In East Prussia the situation has undergone but little change since the Russians succeeded at the end of November in driving the German Army from its prepared positions within the German frontier. On the right bank of the Vistula, in the Mlawa region, the German advance has also been arrested. In the first half of December the invading force was met by bold Russian tactics which compelled the Germans to retire behind the German frontier, and though Mlawa itself is once more temporarily in German hands, the right bank of the Vistula may be considered clear of the enemy, whose attempts to cross that river from South to North have been successfully repulsed.

In Galicia at the end of November Cracow was being bombarded, and the Russian advanced forces had penetrated nearly to the Plains of Hungary. In the middle of December the Austrians, having been reinforced, assumed the offensive and Pushed back the Russians some 35 miles. But this success was short-lived. With great gallantry the Russians have gradually forced back the Austrian right wing once more to the Carpathian passes. The Austrian retreat in the latter part of December has been marked by very severe casualties, and, in addition to vast numbers of killed and wounded, 50,000 Austrians are prisoners of war.

One of the brightest spots in the military operations during December has been the extraordinary achievement of the gallant Serbian Army. At the end of November their situation was very critical. The Serbian forces in their retreat had been obliged to evacuate a considerable portion of their territory. Belgrade was occupied on December I by the Austrians, who were then making strenuous efforts to turn the left wing of the Serbian Army. Suddenly the Serbians assumed the offensive all along the line with startling success and completely routed the Austrian forces in a way which evoked our highest admiration. Belgrade was re-occupied by this gallant Army exactly a fortnight after its capture by the Austrians. In these operations the Austrians suffered very heavy losses both in men and material, and the signal defeat of four or five Austrian corps by their valiant opponents cannot fail to have had a demoralising effect both throughout the military forces of the Dual Monarchy and amongst its civilian population. Meanwhile, the Montenegrin Army had advanced into Bosnia and captured important positions in the face of considerable Austrian opposition.

In the Caucasus at the end of November the Turkish Army was being pushed back towards Erzerum, and during the first ten days of December advances were made East of Lake Van. Turkish reinforcements were landed on the Black Sea coast and operated against Batum, while the left of the Turkish main Army, also reinforced, advanced from about Erzerum in a northeasterly direction and is now engaged with Russian forces about Ardahan and Sarykamish. We received news last night of a Russian victory in the Caucasus which should have far-reaching influence upon all the Turkish operations which are being conducted under German leadership in the Near East.

In Mesopotamia our Indian Expeditionary Force has continued its northern advance from Busra and attacked the enemy at Kurna on the left bank of the river Tigris, defeating the Turkish troops, inflicting heavy loss, and capturing prisoners and guns. Since then the troops have consolidated the positions taken, and have been warmly welcomed by Arabs of the surrounding districts.

The much-talked-of advance of the Turkish forces against Egypt has up to the present failed to materialise. Certain bodies of Turkish troops under German officers have been observed by our aircraft to be attempting to penetrate the country East of the Suez Canal but no large force has yet appeared, and there has been scarcely any contact with our troops guarding the Canal.

In East Africa our military forces are cooperating with the Royal Navy in carrying out certain operations against the enemy. An attack on the German position at Tanga was not successful, but we are now occupying certain points within German territory. Topographical difficulties, the want of water, and heavy bush form temporary obstacles to the further advance of the force which we are keeping in that field of operations.

Since I last spoke in this House the situation in South Africa has undergone a most welcome change. The sinister threat of a widespread rebellion, so cunningly planned and fostered by our enemies, has disappeared before the loyal and prompt action of General Botha and his Ministry. General Botha handled the military situation in a masterly manner which calls for unqualified praise and in a very short time stamped out the rebellion—if, indeed, it is not an exaggeration to apply such a term to the misguided action of a section of the population. This result gives us great confidence in the future success of any operations the General may undertake. In the Cameroons a mixed force under General Dobell has advanced with success and occupied several important positions.

On our own coasts, on the morning of December 16, German battle-cruisers bombarded for half an hour Hartlepool, Scarborough, and Whitby. At Hartlepool a battery replied with some effect, though it was out-classed by the heavy guns of the cruisers. No military advantage was gained, or could possibly have been gained, by wanton attacks on undefended seaside resorts, which attacks had as their chief result fatal accidents to a certain number of civilians, among whom women and children figured pathetically. The people in the three towns bore themselves in this trying experience with perfect courage and coolness, and not the least trace of panic could be observed.

These, my Lords, are the principal events which have taken place since I last had the honour of addressing your Lordships' House The great initial advantages which the Germans enjoyed by reason of the numerical superiority and extensive war preparations of their Army are certainly diminishing, while the Allies are daily increasing those resources of men and material that will enable them to prosecute the war to a triumphant end. Recruiting has proceeded on normal lines, and the anticipated decrease of numbers in Christmas week has given way to a rise which has almost restored the weekly return of recruits to the former satisfactory level. The Parliamentary Recruiting Committee has completed the distribution of Householders' Forms to inhabitants of country towns and districts, and, before Christmas, began to distribute to the large towns and cities. Over 218,000 names of persons willing to serve have been registered, and there is every reason to anticipate fruitful results from the valuable work which has been done by and through this Committee.

The Recruiting Department is also in close touch with Territorial Force Associations, municipal bodies, and Labour Exchanges, and everything is being done to facilitate the enlistment of those presenting themselves. It is worthy of remark that there is no better recruiting agent than the soldier himself, and in many cases a large portion of a man's leave has been spent by him in encouraging the youths in his home district to enter the service of their country. In the earlier stages of the war considerable difficulty was experienced, and anxiety felt, owing to the dearth of officers, but I am glad to say that we have now been able to fill up the officers' cadres of the Expeditionary Force, and a considerable surplus of training officers is available to draw upon. It is not amiss in this respect to recall to mind the appeal which I made in your Lordships' House and to point to the fact that, since the war began, no fewer than 29,100 officers have been appointed to the Army.

Close and vigilant attention on the part of the War Office staff has served to cope with, and gradually to overcome, the difficulties of securing supplies and equipment for those new forces to whose future activities we look forward with all confidence. The training of the Canadian Contingent and the new armies has been carried on lately under the worst weather conditions; but, in spite of this, a great deal of extremely good work has been done during the past month. The discomforts and hardships due to storm and wet and mud have been cheerfully met, and both officers and men are imbued with one common thought—that of preparing themselves as thoroughly and as rapidly as possible to take their part in the field, where I am sure they will worthily support their comrades in arms.

EARL CURZON or KEDLESTON

My Lords, before I proceed to comment upon the interesting statement to which we have just listened from the Secretary of State for War—and in passing let me say that I only wish it had been double as long and double as full—there are two preliminary observations which I would ask leave to make in the first place, my noble friend the Leader of the Opposition greatly regrets his continued absence from your Lordships' House. I am glad to say, as I had the opportunity of witnessing only a few days ago, that he is making excellent progress towards complete recovery, and that he has every hope of being back in his place here when your Lordships meet again at the beginning of February. The second observation is with reference to the circumstances under which we meet this afternoon and the scope of the discussions which will occupy the next two or three clays. When I pleaded, at the end of November last, that your Lordships' House should meet again at an earlier date than that fixed for the other House of Parliament—namely, the beginning of February—I urged that course on two grounds. In the first place, that His Majesty's Government might be disposed to make some statement to us about the progress of the war; and, secondly, that there might be questions which we on our side might feel anxious to address to the Government. I think the statement which the Secretary of State for War has just made fulfils the first condition; and as regards the second, the state of the Notice Paper will show that there are quite a number of subjects which noble Lords sitting on our side of the House desire to bring to the attention, of His Majesty's Government.

But in putting these Questions and in making speeches upon them, as many of us no doubt will do, I should like to explain what I am sure are the conditions which every one of us desires to observe. We desire to say nothing and to do nothing that shall in the smallest degree embarrass, impede, or hamper His Majesty's Government in the discharge of the overwhelming task that is laid upon them. We shall say nothing and do nothing that will interfere in any degree with the successful prosecution of this war to the only issue that is consistent both with the declarations of His Majesty's Ministers, speaking for the nation, and with the national honour itself. And, above all, we shall say nothing and do nothing, and, I hope, ask nothing, that is likely in the faintest degree to give information or to be of assistance to the enemy with whom we are fighting. Subject to those conditions, which I am 'sure everybody will accept, it appears to me that there is a field of action, of inquiry, and of speech which it is open to an Opposition on an occasion like this to occupy, which it is its duty to take up, and which it can cover with advantage both to the Government itself and to the nation as a whole.

We, as an Opposition, are in a rather peculiar position in this war. We have no share either in official responsibility or in executive authority in connection with the war. Many of us—myself for instance; know little more about it than the man in the street. I do not complain of that. It is an indispensable corollary of the constitutional system under which we exist in this country. But the fact that we know so little and have no authority does not deter us for one moment from giving His Majesty's Ministers, as we have done, and shall continue to do, the most unstinted support. And whilst speaking of that support I should like to say here, what I know to be true, that on many occasions we on this side, both in Parliament and in public, have refrained front making speeches and from asking questions where speech was tempting and where criticism would have been easy. In that course I can assure your Lordships that we shall continue.

But, after all, we have to remember that we of the Opposition are the representatives of a considerable portion of the nation. Six months ago I might have been discussing what proportion. I will not attempt such a task now. But as the representatives of a considerable proportion of the nation we hold, so to speak, a watching brief on their behalf. It is our duty to represent- their interests, anxieties, apprehensions—fears, if you like—with regard to this and to be the spokesmen of them in this House. It is in that light, my Lords, that we shall conduct our operations in this very short; session of this House of Parliament. And I am sure that nobody will be more willing to recognise the propriety of the canons I am laying clown than noble Lords who sit on the Bench[...]s opposite. Governments, after all, are very human institutions, and a Government that is subjected to no criticism at all, even in a great national crisis like this, tends to become careless, to mistake silence for acquiescence, and very likely to develop an extravagant and almost pontifical sense of its own authority. I do not say that His Majesty's Government are likely to he thus affected. But we desire to assist them in exercising the necessary measure of self-restraint, and if we do so within the limits that I have laid down I am sure no complaints will come from the noble Marquess opposite, while if we transcend those limits I hope he will be the first to call us to order.

Now, my Lords, I turn to the statement to which we have just listened, and I hope the noble Marquess the Leader of the House and the noble and gallant Field-Marshal will excuse me if in sonic points I travel a little outside the limits which the Secretary of State for War has observed. He dealt with the question of Egypt. Meeting here on the first occasion since a great and notable change has taken place in the political status of Egypt, it is impossible for us to refrain from noticing that condition of affairs. I believe that we on this side of the House look with unmixed satisfaction upon what has taken place. It was obvious, when Turkey I entered as a combatant into the field, when she plunged into this most wanton and unprovoked and indefensible war against the Allies, and when, more than that, she endeavoured to justify an action which we know to have been the result only of personal ambition and political intrigue, as a Holy War—it was obvious from that moment that a great and an immediate change in the political status of Egypt was inevitable. The declaration of a Protectorate over Egypt, the setting up of a native Sovereign of the family of Mehemet Ali, the selection of the particular Prince who has been chosen for that office, the choice of the title which has been conferred upon him, seem, I believe, to the whole of your Lordships' House to have been prudent and wise. And I may say that it seemed to me a very dramatic and significant thing to read, as we did in the newspapers only yesterday, of this new Sovereign of Egypt being driven to the Palace where he was to be installed through streets that were lined by Egyptian troops, by Indian soldiers, by Australian and New Zealand contingents, and by English Territorials. It was an unheard-of scene, and set the seal of an almost world-wide approval upon the investiture of that Sovereign.

Before I pass from that question may I add that the most gratifying features of what has happened in Egypt appear to me to be these? In the first place, the change has been most warmly welcomed by the native population, who see in it a renewed security for their continued advance on the path of contentment and prosperity; and, in the second place, it has been not less warmly welcomed by those very Continental Powers in whom, only a few years ago, it would have excited grate suspicion and alarm. I do not believe that any considerable change in the political status of a country has been accomplished in modern times with greater satisfaction, both inside and outside its borders. It is, indeed, to the Egyptian people, for whom we stand as trustees, a fresh and further guarantee of our intention to discharge that trust; and to that intention I hope we shall remain true. The noble and gallant Earl said a word about the military situation in Egypt. The language he used was that the Turkish attack had "failed to materialise"—a very diplomatic way of expressing that, so far, it had been a complete fiasco. We welcome that assurance from the noble and gallant Earl. We have every reason to think that the unusually large forces that happen to be in Egypt at the present moment are thoroughly able to cope with any military danger with which the country may be confronted, and, for my own part, I have no shadow of doubt that, however Turkey may fare in any other of her ventures in this war, from the Egyptian venture she will reap no profit whatsoever.

I pass to the other parts of the world to which the noble and gallant Earl alluded. I must say that I thought he was very economical in his information. I have myself put down a Question on the Paper, addressed to the noble Marquess the Leader of the House, asking for information about the war in different parts of the East, and the noble and gallant Earl was good enough to anticipate the noble Marquess by giving a kind of general reply. May I say this about these remote scenes of fighting in Asia and in Africa? I am grateful for such information as the Government have given, but I do not think they have been altogether fair or generous about the matter. With the single exception of a statement on the subject made in reply to a Question by myself in November last, and of the accounts which we read in the newspapers from officers serving in those parts of the world, we have not been told anything of a war that has been going on in many parts of the world for five months. I ask the Government to remember that there are mothers with sons, wives with husbands, sisters with brothers serving in those parts of the world, and that they are just as much entitled to information as are the relatives of those who are serving almost within sight of our own shores. In these distant operations there is none of the glory or rélame of the battle-fields about which we hear so much at home. These people are left in long and agonising suspense with no news whatever, and I do ask His Majesty's Government—I ask the noble Marquess the Leader of the House, who is mainly responsible—to remember these considerations, and, if possible, to be a little more generous in the information which is given us in future.

Take, for instance, the case of the Persian Gulf, to which the noble and gallant Earl alluded. That has been in the main a river expedition, conducted under circumstances of great difficulty by Indian forces. All we know is that they have gone up and captured the important Turkish port of Busra, and the noble Earl told us just now, to our great satisfaction, that they have proceeded further up the river and taken a place named Kurna at the junction of the Tigris and the Euphrates —the traditional Garden of Eden of the Holy Scriptures. But that is all we have been told. I am not going to ask what are the future plans of His Majesty's Government in that quarter. I am not going to ask how many troops they have, or what they propose to do. But I would like to ask this, Who is responsible for this campaign?

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

May I interrupt the noble Earl for one moment to remind him that, so far as this particular theatre of operations is concerned at the head of the Persian Gulf, there have been a series of communications to the newspapers containing a considerable amount of detail about the various operations that have taken place both at also and also at Basra.

EARL CURZON of KEDLESTON

I think that is quite true, and in so far as I was blaming the Government for inadequate information my remarks did not apply to this case. The question which I was putting when the noble Marquess rose was, Who is responsible for this campaign? Is it under the India Office?

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

Yes.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

A further question I wish to ask is, Who is to pay for it? We had an important announcement made to us the other day as to the payment of Indian troops employed in Europe. Perhaps the noble Marquess will be able to tell us at a later date what arrangements have been made for the payment of the cost of this campaign. Before passing from that part of the world I should like to say that I am very glad that these operations are being conducted by the Government of India. I look forward with anticipation to a happy future for that part of Asia—Mesopotamia. This country once waved with corn and was occupied by a large and prosperous population, but it is now a desert with scarcely a trace of either residence or life. I hope that under the new conditions it may recover its old prosperity and that the desert may again blossom as the rose.

I pass to East Africa, the next point dealt with by the noble and gallant Earl, and here I believe that my critical observations in fairness apply. I do think that there has been undue reticence on this subject. With the exception of the statement which the noble Marquess made in reply to me in November and of a published statement in the newspapers regarding the disaster to which the noble and gallant Field-Marshal referred as having occurred on the coast in the month of November last, we have had, I think I am correct in saying, no information except that which we have obtained from the extracts from soldiers' letters which have appeared in the newspapers. From these we gather that there has been a remarkable exhibition of bravery and resource in that part of the British Dominions. It appears that at one time the Protectorate was in the gravest danger, both of attack by land and bombardment by sea. The forces on which they relied appeared to have been engaged in a distant part of the country. Nobody seems to have anticipated that anything was likely to happen, but the moment the danger was scented there was a rally of all the various parties concerned. Every Englishman—planter, mercantile clerk, or otherwise—appears to have at once volunteered; the whole country sprang to arms; Indian regiments and Imperial Service troops appeared on the scene; the Navy, I gather, co-operated; and I think I am justified in inferring from what the noble and gallant Field-Marshal said that the corner has been turned and that we are really now on the way to make a serious and successful advance. I think he even told us that we are occupying certain points within German territory, and only yesterday we saw in the newspapers that a successful bombardment had been effected of the German port of Dar-es-Salaam, south of Zanzibar. Perhaps the Secretary of State for India will allow me to ask a few questions before I leave this branch of the subject. What exactly has happened at Dar-es-Salaam? We read of the bombardment of the ships in the harbour and of their destruction, but I cannot gather from the newspapers whether we have seized and are in occupation of the town itself. Secondly, our anxieties were greatly relieved a little while ago by hearing that the "Königsberg," the roving comrade of the "Emden," had been shut up in a creek on the Eastern Coast of Africa, but since then we have heard nothing as to the fate of the ship itself or of its crew. If it can be given without indiscretion, I should like to ask for some information on that point.

Then, again, there have appeared in the newspapers from time to time a list of the casualties among officers, but I think I am right in saying that no lists have appeared of casualties in the rank and file. I wonder whether we might ask that that deficiency should be remedied? The last question I would like to ask on that point is, Under whom is this campaign being conducted? The British East Africa Protectorate is under the Colonial Office, but from the fact of the noble and gallant Earl replying on the point I take it that my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for the Colonies, who has a rooted objection to war, must have handed over his functions to the Secretary of State for War. If he has done so, I can only say that it is a source of profound relief to myself. But I am sure it would be interesting to your Lordships to know who is responsible for this area of fighting in British East Africa. Only one other observation on that point. I do not blame either the Government or the local officials for not having foreseen that war was going to break out. None of us, or very few of us, foresaw it in this country. But I think some blame attaches for there having been, so far as I can judge, no plan of campaign or operations at all. Indeed, one of the battalions of the King's African Rifles had been disbanded only a short time before, and had promptly been enlisted by the Germans. We should be glad of a little information on these matters.

Then a word about the Cameroons. The noble and gallant Field-Marshal told us, what I confess I did not know before, that the campaign there was being conducted under the command of General Dobell. I do not to this moment know whether this is a War Office campaign, or an India Office campaign, or by whom it is being waged. There are, I think, two expeditions going on in the country, both of which have attained a certain amount of success. They are being conducted under very difficult conditions as regards locomotion and climate. I read in the newspapers that the English and French are cooperating there. I gather from the assent of the noble Marquess that that is the case. I should be very grateful if he could give us any further information on the point. Many of your Lordships may feel inclined to say, Why take up the time of the House of Lords by talking about these distant places of which we know so little? I should like our brave countrymen who are holding up the national flag in those parts of the world to realise that our eye is just as much upon them as it is upon those who are fighting for our cause in Europe. We are just as grateful to them for the part they are playing as we are to our own comrades who have gone across the Channel. We mourn the loss of those who have perished there for our country just as much as we mourn those of our own friends and relatives who are now lying beneath the soil of Flanders.

One word only as to South Africa. The noble and gallant Field-Marshal congratulated General Botha, that singleminded and most resolute man, upon the success that has attended his suppression of the rebellion with which he was confronted in his own country. We join in those congratulations, and now we know that a much bigger and more serious task lies before him. He has to deal with an enemy long prepared, occupying an immense stretch of country, with great military resources organised for the purpose. It is good news to read in the papers of Boers and Britons marching side by side and commandoes meeting in order to take their part in this campaign. Every one of your Lordships feels that we may safely leave the matter in the hands of General Botha, and that he may be trusted, in the first place, to punish the gross act of treachery of which many of our fellow-subjects in that part of the world have been guilty; secondly, to defeat the plot that has no doubt been organised for years against the South African State; and, lastly, to relieve it for all time of any such menace in the future.

The noble and gallant Field-Marshal, after passing through these scenes of fighting, turned to the European field of war and gave us a succinct summary of the situation as it now exists. I will say nothing about the general situation in the centre and in the East of Europe except to join the Secretary of State for War in the congratulations which he offered, I am sure with the unanimous approval of your Lordships' House, to our various Allies—to the Serbians for the almost incomparable manner in which they have again driven the enemy out of their country and recovered their capital city; to the Russians, who seem to be achieving success in three theatres of war at the same time; to the Belgians, whom he did not happen to mention, but who are taking a gallant part in the attempt to recover their own country; to the French, who, holding a line of between 300 and 400 miles in length, are steadily pushing forward, and in the direction of Alsace appear within the last few days to have accomplished considerable success. We join with the Secretary of State in congratulations to all those combatant Allies.

Now I turn to the theatre of fighting which more immediately concerns ourselves, and I want respectfully to ask your Lordships to go a little bit beyond the Secretary of State and attempt, with a view to deciding what our future action must he, to form a true idea of what is the present position there. No doubt there is a great deal to encourage us in what has passed during the time even since your Lordships were last sitting in this House. Germany appears to have failed in her two Western objectives of Paris and Calais just as she seems to have failed in her Eastern objective of Warsaw. Her armies in Flanders are held up by the unbroken and unbeaten armies of ourselves and our Allies. Her great fleet has not yet dared to emerge from the safe retreat of her harbours and canals. Her troops have suffered almost incredible losses—losses proportionate to what, I am told, is the amazing bravery that her troops have displayed. And, as the noble and gallant Field-Marshal told us, our own troops, having assumed the offensive, are making a slight but still an appreciable advance. Those are the factors, as I see them, that are to the good. Now let us look to the other side. The German armies are still in occupation of the whole, except a limited corner, of Belgium. They are still in occupation of a large portion of the territory of France. There is at present no evidence, so far as I can see—I have no right to prophesy as to the future—no evidence of impending exhaustion of resources, either in men, ammunition, or guns. These tremendous forces are inspired, as I just now remarked, by a bravery equal to that of our own soldiers. And this bravery, inexplicable to us as it seems, is enhanced by a hatred against ourselves of which we, with our more phlegmatic temperament, are incapable; and this hatred appears to be fortified rather than weakened by our insensibility, by the cement of the crimes which they themselves commit, and by the moral condemnation of the whole civilised world. That is, I believe, a correct account of the situation as it exists.

If that be so, I am the last to contend that it affords any ground for despondency or alarm on our part, still less any ground —of course, the reverse—for slackening of effort or weakening in our general purpose. Rather I would say, if I am right, that never since these five months began has there been a greater call for courage, resolution, and, above all, foresight, than at the present moment. Never was there a moment when we ought to set our teeth more grimly than now. Never was there a time when the whole nation ought to bend its will with a more inflexible devotion to the object which we have in view. I ask, Are we doing it? I want in the course of this debate His Majesty's Government to be a little more helpful in guiding us to a reply to that question than the Secretary of State has been in the observations to which we have just listened. If the answer to the question that I have put is to be given in terms of moral qualities or of material resources, I have no doubt what the answer will be. There never was a time when the bravery or constancy of our soldiers or the leadership of our Generals was better; and there never has been a time when the productive capacity of this country as directed to the provision of the necessities of war has been more effectively utilised than at the present moment. I do not think there can he any doubt about those points.

But can we answer the question equally satisfactorily in terms of men? This war is tending to be largely a question of men. The other factors that I have mentioned being apparently more or less evenly matched between the various combatants, it is the numerical factor that will decide. Therefore I come to the question of men. There is not one of us in this House who has not got friends, relations, correspondents at the Front. We hear day by day what is going on and about the sentiments of our troops there; and I am hound to say that, from all that I have heard, there is an almost unanimous feeling among our men at the Front that what is wanted, in so far as they can be provided, of course, are men—men to relieve our wearied troops in the sodden trenches, men to fill the gaps caused by the appalling casualties going on from day to day, men to enable the Field-Marshal in command to push forward that advance to which the Secretary of State for War referred, and men to show our Allies that we are putting forward our full strength along with them in the conflict. We have been at War for five months. I am not going, to say, although I think I know, the members of men that we have at the Front. That would be an unwise and unpatriotic thing to do. I go further and say that I think the numbers which the Secretary of State for War has sent to the Front are amazing; and on August 3 last, when war commenced, if we had been told that in five months he was going to put this number at the Front, there is hardly one of us who would have believed it possible. I say that to the credit of the War Office. But that is not my point. My point is that there are those at the Front who think that the forces which are there in point of numbers contrast somewhat unfavourably with the strength of the armies that we are training at home; and for my own part I venture respectfully to think that the best service that the War Office could at the present moment render to those who are in the field would be to concentrate on the equipment of those soldiers in this country who are sufficiently trained to be able to go, and to send as many of them as possible to the Front with as little delay as may be.

Now may I pass to the situation in the future? I hope the Secretary of State will forgive me if I say that I listened to his observations on the subject of recruiting with sonic disappointment. I believe there is not one of us who had not hoped that he might be able to give us some definite information as to the degree of rapidity with which men are coming in in response to his call, and as to the adequacy of the arrangements which have so far been made to bring our men to the Colours. All that he told us just now was that recruiting is proceeding on normal lines. I wanted to hear that it is proceeding on abnormal lines. That is what I think is at the back of the wish and heart of every one of us. The noble and gallant Earl told us that numbers had fallen in Christmas week but were rising again since, and that the Parliamentary Recruiting Committee had obtained a register of a very large number of names of those who were willing to serve. This point is really of supreme importance. It is the whole question, and it is the question which I am bound, acting for the moment in the position which I fill, to press on your Lordships' House. What is the situation with which we are confronted, and what is the object which the noble and gallant Field-Marshal has in view? I can only take it from the indications afforded by the Government them selves. A little while back the First Lord of the Admiralty, Mr. Winston Churchill, made a speech in which he promised us an Army of twenty-five Army Corps, or a million of men, on the Continent in the spring, and only a few days ago we read in the newspapers that the new forces which are being raised are going to be organised in six Armies, the Generals of whom had already been appointed. These Armies, I observe, do not include either the Indian or the Colonial forces, and I think I am justified in assuming, therefore, that they would constitute—

EARL KITCHENER

They include the Indian Forces.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

And do they include the forces from Canada and elsewhere?

EARL. KITCHENER

No; they are not sufficiently trained yet.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

Then presumably these six Armies will be increased to a larger total when the Colonial forces have been trained. If we take the published figures of the War Establishment, according to which an Army means three Army Corps of two Divisions each—that is, six Divisions, or 120,000 men of all ranks—these Armies will represent, with Cavalry and other arms, a force of about a million men. That will be the Foreign Service Army. Then the noble and gallant Field-Marshal has also his Home Defence Army, which he is bound to keep in this country to guard the inviolability of our shores. This Army consists of Territorial Infantry, Territorial Mounted Brigades, and Fortress Defence troops. I am told that this Home Defence Army ought to consist of the best part of 500,000 men. Whether that is an exaggerated figure or not I cannot say, but about this I do feel clear— that the Home Defence Army ought to be a stable force; it ought to be under a single commander, and ought not to be a force which is continually being called upon to supply Generals, officers, and men to the Army serving abroad. There is a third Army—namely, the drafts required to fill the gaps arising from the awful loss of life at the Front. Remember that these gaps have to be filled almost the moment the troops are landed, because we know that the troops are taken direct from the landing places into the trenches, and as casualties may take place immediately the drafts have to be practically waiting. These appear to be the needs of the War Office—

EARL KITCHENER

I cannot quite accept that.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

Of course, I speak subject to correction by the great authority of the noble and gallant Field-Marshal. I am putting forward these views so that they may be corrected if they are wrong, as very conceivably they may be. But if I am at all approximately right in thinking that what the noble and gallant Earl wants is this Foreign Service Army at the Front, this Home Defence Army to keep our shores intact, and drafts to fill places caused by loss of life at the Front, then I imagine that the total forces he will require will be considerably over two millions, and may possibly be nearer three millions of men. What I want to ask the noble and gallant Earl is this. Will the men whom he is now seeking to obtain enable him to supply these forces? Is it really unreasonable to ask that the nation upon whom he is making this great call should have some idea of the extent of the sacrifices that they are asked to make and the number of men they are called upon to supply? Is it unreasonable to ask that we should know how many have been provided already, what are the deficiencies that remain to be filled, and, if there are deficiencies, whether the noble and gallant Earl is confident about his ability to fill them? I do not ask for one moment what use he proposes to make of these troops when he gets them, where he proposes to put them, and so on; but I think that the country would be in a better position to respond to the call which he is making upon them if they knew a little more about the extent and limits of the demand which is being made. I do not ask for a reply to a question of this sort straight away. The noble Marquess the Leader of the House, who, will perhaps speak later in the debate, may be either unable or unwilling to give a reply; but we shall be grateful, and I think the country will be grateful, for any information he can give us on the matter. Even if he cannot give us it to-day, it will be very germane to a discussion to be inaugurated by my noble friend beside me two days hence on the subject of the measures to be taken to insure a constant supply of reinforcements and of drafts, and it would help us, I think, to conduct that discussion with greater ability if we knew a little more than we at present do.

I apologise to your Lordships for having covered a very wide field of inquiry. But before I conclude, there are three questions which I can put almost in a sentence and which can be answered almost in a sentence by the noble Marquess if he is willing to do so. Firstly, as regards the regimental system in this country. One of the symptoms which a good many officers and other than officers have viewed with a god deal of alarm in connection with this war has been the very large number of officers who have been sent almost indiscriminately from their own regiments to others. We should be grateful for an assurance that these officers will he returned at the first opportunity. After all, the regimental system is the core and centre, almost the palladium, of our Army, and any breakdown of the regimental system would not only be profoundly unpopular with officers and men but would detrimentally affect the efficiency of the Army as a whole.

The second question concerns the Indian troops who are serving with the Army at the Front. These Indian forces have, as we know, been taking their full share in the fighting. They have been fighting under conditions without parallel in their own experience, or, I imagine, in the experience of any fighting force—conditions immensely trying to their physique, coming as they do from a dry and warm country, and conditions which expose to the severest test their qualities of courage and of endurance. Naturally, therefore, the casualties among them have been very great, and it is within my knowledge that many of these regiments have been woefully reduced in numbers. The question I ask is, Is the India Office taking steps, as far as possible, to keep up the strength of these depleted units? It is very hard upon any battalion, but it is hardest of all upon a battalion that is separated by conditions of race and religion and language from the people among whom it is fighting, to be reduced below its normal level and to find itself in circumstances in which it cannot do itself justice. Therefore I ask whether steps are being taken, as far as possible, to keep up the strength of these depleted units of the Indian Army.

EARL KITCHENER

I can answer that question in the affirmative.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

I am grateful to the noble and gallant Field-Marshal for that answer. I now come to the third question. Just before Parliament separated we had a short discussion in this House about the appointment of a Committee which had been instituted by the Prime Minister in the other House to deal with the question of pensions and separation allowances. We pressed unavailingly for some member of your Lordships' House to be placed upon that Committee. I do not desire to raise that question again, but as the Committee was instructed to sit almost de die in diem and was invested with powers which enabled it to act even without the sanction of Parliament, and as the matter is one of great importance especially with regard to recruiting, I hope I may be allowed to ask if we may expect to receive its Report before long.

In conclusion I have only this to say. First, I hope that my attitude of inquiry will not be held in the smallest degree to imply that we do not all of us offer our unhesitating and heartfelt congratulations to the War Office on the magnificent work it has done. It has our confidence; there is every reason for giving that confidence, and we hope to be able to continue to give it to the end. Secondly—I do not think it possible to omit this remark at the reopening of Parliament on an occasion so solemn as this in our history—I think we ought all of us here to lay, on behalf of this House, our wreath of sorrowing admiration on the graves of the thousands of men, our fellow-subjects, our fellow-countrymen, many of them our relations and friends, who have given up their lives for their country, and to vow by the simple crosses which have been erected above their graves that they shall not have died in vain. Thirdly, I do not think we ought to meet and speak here without sending, for what it is worth, our tribute of admiration for the extraordinary bravery, courage, endurance, and, to use the word of the noble and gallant Field-Marshal, cheerfulness of our men in circumstances that place an inconceivable strain upon every physical and moral faculty of man. Lastly—I do not think they have been mentioned yet, but they ought not to be forgotten in any of our discussions here—may we record our unfaltering confidence in the two commanders, Sir John French by land, and Sir John Jellicoe by sea, who retain now, as they have done from the day when they took up their joint commands, the enthusiastic devotion of their men and the entire confidence of the country.

THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE)

My Lords, I have very little to add, so far as a general statement is concerned, to what fell from my noble and gallant friend behind me; but as I was appealed to more than once by the noble Earl opposite I will make a few observations dealing with the specific points which he raised. Perhaps I may be allowed to begin by saying that, like the noble Earl opposite and his friends, I regret the absence of the noble Marquess, Lord Lansdowne, who is the actual Leader of the Opposition, and on this side of the House we heard with the greatest satisfaction that there is a prospect that before long he may be once more in his place.

The noble Earl began by pointing out that the Opposition were in a somewhat special position in the discussions carried On during this war because, in the first place, although they were not engaged in the ordinary work of Opposition, yet they were not sharing the responsibility of His Majesty's Government in the actual conduct of the war, and were not in a position to obtain any great amount of daily information. It is, of course, quite true that the Government cannot, and would not if they could, shoulder off any of their responsibility either upon noble Lords opposite or upon any one else; and under our constitutional system the responsibility for everything that is done is bound to rest upon the Government and upon the Government alone. But I may remind the noble Earl that in some branches of our work we have been assisted by many of his friends. I note in particular the noble Earl opposite, Lord St. Aldwyn—who will allow me, perhaps, to express to him our congratulations upon his advancement in your Lordships' House—arid we have also had the advantage of the assistance of Mr. Austen Chamberlain, and, what is more particularly germane to this discussion so far as the Committee of Imperial Defence is concerned, of the regular co-operation of Mr. Balfour. It is, therefore, not quite a complete statement of the fact to describe the Opposition as altogether without information of what is occurring.

I will now deal with the various points on which the noble Earl touched. So far as the Persian Gulf is concerned, I pointed out to him that that is a campaign for which the Government of India are responsible, and it is being conducted by them so far, I am happy to think, with uniform success. I have really no information on that subject to add to what has already been given. There has been no serious fighting of any kind since the last statement was published; and although we are holding, as my noble and gallant friend pointed out, in some strength the advance post of Kurna, we are not at present making anything like a general advance into Mesopotamia. We are, I hope, strongly and safely placed, and that for the present, I think, must satisfy us.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

The cost of that campaign?

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

As regards the cost of the expedition, the arrangement which has been made for all cases in which Indian troops are employed—and there, as the noble Earl knows, only troops from India are employed—is that their normal expenses should be paid by India and the remainder should be charged to the Imperial Government. Whether that arrangement will be the final one in this particular case when the whole matter comes to be considered—I make a similar reservation with regard to every case in which Indian troops may be employed—I am not in a position to state; but provisionally, at any rate, that arrangement holds good. As the noble Earl is well aware, in many matters connected with expenditure in the Persian Gulf it is the custom for the two Governments to pay half and half. How an arrangement of that kind would work out as regards the payment of troops I have not so far endeavoured to calculate; and at present the other arrangement is the one which holds good.

Then the noble Earl asked some questions and made one or two complaints, I think not on his own behalf but on behalf of others, with regard to the East African campaign. Those operations are being conducted by the War Office, not by the India or the Colonial Office. I will inquire as to the matter of the casualty lists—that is to say, the casualties of the rank and file—and will see whether they have been received in full as yet, and when they have been there can, of course, be no difficulty as to their publication here. But as regards the general complaint of absence of information, I thought that the comparison which the noble Earl made between the position of the relatives of those who are engaged in Europe and those who are fighting in East Africa was somewhat overstated by him. It surely is the fact—is it not?—that even those whose relatives are engaged at the Front in Europe receive—except so far as they are able to get personal letters from their friends—an exceedingly small modicum of information. Therefore it is hardly fair to assume, as the noble Earl appeared to, that there is so marked a difference between the position of the relatives of the two sets of officers or soldiers concerned. I can assure the noble Earl that, so far as those are concerned whose relations have been killed or wounded, we have endeavoured to supply them with all possible information both as to the time and place of the casualty as soon as we have received it ourselves; but it was some little time after the more formidable operations which occurred that full details were received by the War Office, or by the India Office so far as the Indian troops were concerned. The bombardment of Dar-es-Salaam, about which the noble Earl asked, was a purely naval operation and no military force was engaged or any landing made. Then as regards the West African operations—

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

I forget whether I asked the noble Marquess, but at any rate I meant to do so, if he could tell us anything as to the "Königsberg," which was shut up in a creek, and its crew. Then there was the further question about East Africa—under whom is the war being conducted?

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I have informed the noble Earl that it is being conducted under the War Office. So far as the "Königsberg" is concerned, I have no immediate information; but so far as I know the ship is in the same place as when it was last heard of, and therefore is debarred from engaging upon active operations of any kind.

As regards the operations in West Africa, those are being conducted largely by the French in concert with ourselves. They are, in fact, something of a repetition on a small scale of the state of things at the Front in Europe. I believe that the French have placed themselves under the general orders of General Dobell as senior officer, but as a matter of fact the proportion of French troops employed is, I fancy, considerably greater than ours. Those operations are conducted, as the noble Earl may be aware, by Colonial forces so far as we are concerned in them. I need not add anything to the eloquent tribute which the noble Earl paid to General Botha and his Government in South Africa of whom the whole Empire has so much reason to be proud. Nor is it possible for me to add much to what my noble and gallant friend behind me stated upon the European situation.

The noble Earl gave an interesting and, I think I may say, a careful account of his views on the general situation as concerns the supply of men at home and their employment abroad, thereby, as he himself pointed out, almost initiating a discussion which the noble Earl, Lord Selborne, has put down for a later day. It was the noble Earl's object, I gathered, to pave the way for that discussion by some general observations of his own this afternoon. I have no criticism whatever to offer of the noble Earl's remarks so far as he desired to impress upon us all and upon the country generally the magnitude of the task in which we are now engaged and the need of a continued national effort without a moment's relaxation or pause. But as the noble Earl developed his subject I confess we felt on this side that once or twice he was beginning to get on somewhat dangerous ground—ground, at any rate, on which it is not possible for us to fellow him with anything like detailed speeches. To one observation of the noble Earl I desire to draw attention. He spoke of its being one of the tasks of the new armies to fill the gaps which are formed by these terribly heavy casualties of which we all know, and, although he may not have intended to do so, he appeared to imply that that task of filling the depleted ranks had not been in fact fully carried out hitherto. My Lords, that is not the case. As a matter of fact every casualty that has taken place in the ranks has been promptly replaced.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

I did not really suggest that. I made no such implication.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I am very glad to hear the noble Earl's contradiction, because both my noble and gallant friend and I thought,from the form in which he stated it, that it was rather a pious aspiration than a statement of fact, and I am very glad to have been able to set that matter right. Then the noble Earl made a general statement about what he conceived to be the military possibilities of the country, and spoke of our putting forward our full strength, as indeed it is clear that we must. The noble Earl did not, it is true, indulge in the kind of criticism which I have seen uttered and written, although he seemed to hint once or twice that those by whose side we are fighting might conceivably have some reasonable ground of complaint that we were not putting into the field forces at all proportionate to our general Imperial strength. It is no doubt true that, if you take the populations of the different countries engaged in the war, our original contribution to the fighting line was greatly less in proportion than that of some other countries; but in nuking that statement we have to bear various things in mind.

In the first place, we have to mention both the overwhelming strength of the Navy and the general service to the cause Of ail the Allies which the Navy is silently rendering, services which some may be tempted to overlook. In the second place it is only fair to point out that we never did profess to be a military nation in the sense that the whole manhood of the country was to be ready almost at a moment's notice to spring forward fully armed for the purposes of a Continental war. There have been some, it is quite true, who have held the view that we ought to have endeavoured to combine with our supreme Navy an Army on the Continental model. They were not very numerous, and those who hold that particular view have not, I believe, been represented in the front ranks of any political party. This is not the moment to attempt to argue at what sacrifice any attempt to institute a Continental Army of that kind ready for immediate foreign service—at what sacrifice such a national position could have been obtained. The question is a very wide one, and it opens up a field of discussion upon which I have no desire to enter. But when the noble Earl, who did not, it is true, give any direct countenance to that view, began to discuss the various methods in which the replenishment or the increase of the Army at the Front ought to take place, by what special methods and in what formations the Army at the Front ought to be strengthened, I thought then he was getting on to somewhat dangerous ground, upon which. I, at any rate, could not pretend to follow him.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

With all respect to the noble Marquess, I did not do anything of the kind. All that I did was to take the organisation that has been printed in the papers as being that of His Majesty's Government. I made no suggestion myself of the methods by which the Army ought to be supplied.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I understood the noble Earl to express a definite opinion as to the method in which the forces at the Front ought to be made up to strength or their strength increased. If I misunderstood him I am exceedingly sorry. As we all know, there are various methods in which that might be done, and I quite understood the noble Earl to favour one particular method.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

I should like to put it right, because it is an important point. I made no such specific or definite suggestion. The only part of my speech, I think, which could conceivably bear such an interpretation was the part where I said that the most urgent necessity was for men at the Front. I did not endeavour by any means to indicate the manner in which they should be supplied.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I am glad to hear that from the noble Earl. I do not think that the noble Earl will expect me to deal further with this subject on its technical side, because the specific questions which he desired to raise were addressed rather to my noble and gallant friend behind me than to myself. But he expressed some dread, I think, of the method in which response to the demand for men was being met, and he spoke of the sacrifices which the nation has to make. That is, of course, one way of putting it; but as a matter of fact the actual sacrifice is not made by the nation, but by this or that individual who forms part of the nation. It is the same kind of fallacy which we have been accustomed to meet with in connection with a commercial policy, where people speak of the commercial attitude of a particular country forgetting that that attitude is the sum of the commercial attitude of individuals. The important thing, no doubt, is to bring home to individuals in different parts of the country what the actual need is.

I think it is reasonable to say, so far as the supply of recruits is concerned, that when my noble and gallant friend used the phrase that recruiting is "normal" he was not speaking of the normal figure of peace times but of the figure during the strenuous weeks before the Christmas holidays, which fell somewhat during the days or weeks which are included in that holiday term. My noble and gallant friend is, I think, not discontented with the figures as they now exist. As many men are coming in as can be dealt with for the purposes of equipment and training. My noble and gallant friend has made no definite call for a final number of men. If such a call has to be made it will be made, and I, for one, should not doubt of the response which the country would make to it. But it is desirable that it should be realised that as a matter of fact it has not been made. I am afraid that we shall continue to find ourselves in a sharp difference of opinion with the noble Earl opposite and his friends if they expect that His Majesty's Government are going to state either the number of men which they desire to leave at home to resist a possible invasion, or the number of men which they hope to be able to equip for service on the Continent of Europe or anywhere else. As regards the latter figure it is, of course, almost a truism to state that from a military standpoint the number of men which we should desire to send to join the common cause of the Allies can only be limited by the possibility of equipping them, arming them, supplying them with the requisite drafts, and keeping going the regular supplies of ammunition and other warlike munitions. Every country, no doubt, would say the same. France, Russia, Germany, and Austria would all make precisely the same observation; and none of those countries, so far as I know, has given the smallest hint that it is at any period going to state figures of the kind which the noble Earl desires and asks us to state. Those figures certainly so far as our Allies are concerned are not known to us; and although, so far as we can, we may try to ascertain them about our enemies, I have no doubt that they adopt every possible method of concealing them from us, and, I have no doubt, also from their own friends.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

I am very loth to interrupt; it is not my practice to do so. But the Government themselves have stated the figures. I quoted Mr. Winston Churchill, the First Lord of the Admiralty. He has stated the strength of the forces which he hopes the Government will put in the field in the spring. I quoted the organisation, laid down by the Government itself, of the new armies. I was not suggesting the giving of anything improper; I was merely asking the Government to confirm their own calculations.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

If the noble Earl merely desires me to repeat the general observation made by my right hon. colleague the First Lord of the Admiralty, I am quite willing to do it. I do not, however, think that my doing so will add to the information which the noble Earl and his friends possess. But my remarks bore more particularly on the request which he made for a definite statement as to the forces requisite for home defence.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

No; I did not make such a request.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I think the noble Earl's memory is at fault if he thinks he did not. He himself named a figure of half a million, and asked what my figure was. I should have thought that that was, in fact, a definite request for what the Government considered to be the numbers which they desired to leave for home defence. I have no hesitation in saying, as regards home defence, what we have frequently argued in this House in former days, that the number which would be required to resist a possible invasion of the country must depend, in the first place, upon the number and quality of the troops conducting the invasion; and, secondly, the number of troops required to repel it must obviously depend to a great extent upon the quality of the defence force and the degree of training which it has received.

Then the noble Earl asked me about the Indian troops. My noble and gallant friend behind me told him what is the fact, that the Indian drafts have been regularly supplied. Nobody knows better than the noble Earl opposite that the position with regard to drafts of Indian troops is an infinitely more complicated and difficult one than that affecting our British Army. In India we have not the Reserve system which enables us to create an evergrowing Reserve for a depleted force, and the question of the particular employment of Indian troops is bound to depend, as the war goes on, to some extent upon the possibility of filling up the casualty lists, very heavy as they have been from the fine part which the Indian troops have played in the serious operations in the North of France and Belgium. I think I have now dealt with the various points that were raised.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

There were two other small points. First, the one about the regimental system—officers being taken away from their regiments.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I am afraid I am not competent to answer that.

EARL CURZON OF KEDLESTON

And there was the point of the Report of the Committee on Pensions and Separation Allowances.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I understand that the Report is still tinder consideration, and has not been issued because it is still under discussion on several points affecting particular Departments.

VISCOUNT MIDLETON

My Lords, I only rise to ask a question of the noble Marquess in reference to one portion of my noble friend's speech upon which I think he forgot to say anything. Questions have been raised with regard to numbers, upon which perhaps we may have something to say either to-morrow or on a later day; but there was one other very important question. My noble friend Lord Curzon had a fear lest the numbers which we are able to send to the Front should not be in proportion to the numbers who are ill training in this country. I think that my noble friend's point was really this. We are all aware that we have entered into this struggle without the same preparation on land as the foreign Powers have made and as our Allies have made. It is therefore the more essential that as troops become available the numbers sent to the Front should be in as large a proportion as they can possibly be to those in training. There is apprehension in many quarters that the actual equipment of troops to go to the Front is delayed in some degree by the immense preparations which the War Office has had to make to meet the very large number of men coming in, and especially during the winter, who require at home almost the same equipment as those sent abroad. Whatever course has to be adopted, even if it should lead to a temporary suspension of calling up the men who are ready to recruit or who have recruited, our desire would be to urge upon the Government that nothing should stand between the sending at the earliest possible moment to the Front, and therefore the equipment for that purpose, of all men who may be considered by the military authorities at home available. We should like to have an assurance from the noble Marquess upon that point.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE

I am very glad to have the matter so clearly put by the noble Viscount, and I am sorry I did not deal with it in replying to the noble Earl. I think it is quite safe to say—although I should wish that my noble and gallant friend could have been here to answer the question—that the fears which have been expressed by the noble Viscount as being prevalent are groundless. There is no ground for saying that any troops who might have gone to the Front, who are ready to go to the Front and who are wanted at the Front, are kept back because they are insufficiently equipped owing to demands which had to be satisfied in relation to any of the new forces. I think I can say quite distinctly that there is no foundation whatever for that particular charge, if charge it be.