SLAUGHTER OF ANIMALS BILL. [H.L.] (Hansard, 27 August 1914)

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD LUCAS)
My Lords, the powers which this Bill will confer upon the Board of Agriculture are rather startling, and I will say a few words with regard to the way in which we propose to employ them. First I would like to emphasise the point that this is a purely precautionary measure, and perhaps I may state what has happened which has caused us to think it necessary to bring it forward. At the beginning of the war there occurred in the price of feeding-stuffs, as in the price of almost every other article, a sudden and severe rise, and the result has been that in a good many cases a considerable amount of alarm has been created in the minds of farmers and an uncertainty as to whether it would be possible for them to continue to maintain and feed the number of stock that they habitually have upon their farms. As a matter of fact, since then the price of almost all feeding-stuffs has dropped. We have gone very closely into this question and have had conferences with millers and other producers of feeding-stuffs, and we are satisfied that if things pursue their expected course there will be no need for farmers to have any special alarm on this subject, and no necessity for them to reduce their stock. But the fact that this uncertainty has been created in the minds of farmers—as a matter of fact, a certain amount of slaughtering has taken 516 place—has led to a measure of this kind being recommended, first of all by the very strong Consultative Committee of practical agriculturists under the chairmanship of Sir Ailwyn Fellowes, and, secondly, by a large number of other bodies.
The danger that we have to apprehend is that if some unforeseen incident occurs there may be another sudden rise in the price of feeding-stuffs, perhaps more severe than has occurred up to the present time. Probably if anything of that kind did happen it would only be for a short time, but if during that time the farmers took alarm and killed their stock they might do an enormous amount of damage to the breeding stock of the country, which would be particularly serious at a time when we want to be in a strong position at home with regard to the producing of home-grown meat. If circumstances arose under which prices were likely to be kept up for a considerable time and the prohibition to slaughter animals or sell animals for slaughter would mean a heavy loss to farmers, it would not be fair, of course, to apply the steps proposed in this Bill without at any rate some alleviating measure being passed. It is well known to be an evil at the present time, but it is a long-standing evil, that there is a great deal of killing of immature animals in this country, especially in the dairy business—the killing of young calves—which does have a very bad effect upon the supply of cattle of this country. But that is the normal state of things. We do not in this Bill propose to interfere with that. We should never apply these powers in cases where only the normal amount of killing went on. The powers would be employed only where an absolutely abnormal amount of killing, such as would endanger the breeding stock of the country, occurred. The other evil is a great one, but it cannot be dealt with by powers like these and especially at a time like the present. After the explanation which I have given I hope that your Lordships will read the Bill a second time, with the assurance that we at the Board of Agriculture realise fully what a difficult measure this would be to apply and how much hardship could be caused by doing it, and that we shall only apply it in cases where we are convinced, after the fullest knowledge of the circumstances, that the breeding stock of the country was being seriously endangered.

§ LORD PARMOOR
My Lords, the noble Lord has pointed out the wide-reaching character of this Bill, and the very drastic method in which it has been drafted. I do not rise to oppose the Bill, because I am sure that all agriculturists at the present time are only too anxious to do everything they can in the public interest, even though it might necessitate the sacrifice of their private interests. I rise to ask the noble Lord a question. He has pointed out that it would be only in exceptional circumstances that the Bill would be put into operation. But the powers in the Bill go much further, and might be exercised in a way which would be very serious as regards the business interests of those engaged in agriculture. I wish to ask whether the Board of Agriculture would agree, in the carrying out of this Bill, to act with an advisory committee representative of agricultural interests. The introduction of a consultative committee would be a guarantee that the Bill would not be used outside the limits indicated by the noble Lord.

LORD HARRIS
My Lords, I should like to interpolate one suggestion in connection with the question which has just been asked by Lord Parmoor. If the President of the Board of Agriculture is able to hold out any hope of his Board working in connection with an advisory committee, I would suggest that the county farmers committees or chambers of agriculture would be the best bodies in each case, because then you would have the local opinion.

LORD LUCAS
My Lords, I entirely agree that it is of the greatest importance to have the help of local opinion in this matter. We are dealing with the whole question of live stock by means of the machinery that we already have at hand. We have our advisory councils, most competent bodies, and also the live stock committees of those advisory councils, the members of which are chosen because they are practical breeders and practical farmers. I should be most happy, if that would meet the point of noble Lords opposite, to undertake that we would make use of these committees and discuss the matter with them before applying the Bill to any district.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
My Lords, this Bill as it stands is the most drastic measure I have ever read. The Board of Agriculture are empowered to 518 form their own opinion of what breeding stock is required, and are given power absolutely to control the whole of this trade. The noble Lord in charge of the Bill has been good enough to say that he is quite prepared to consult the committees to which he referred. We are very much obliged to him for that undertaking. At the same time there is nothing in the Bill which in any way makes that consultation necessary. I hope that when we take the Committee stage the noble Lord will agree to the insertion of an Amendment to make his promise good.

THE MARQUESS OF CREWE
My Lords, it cannot, of course, be disputed that the phrasing of this Bill gives very wide and drastic powers to the Department. On the other hand, it is reasonable to consider that it is purely an emergency measure, and one which it is hardly possible to suppose would become part of the permanent law of the land. It clearly could be only in expectation of, or at any rate under dread of, a possible panic which would induce farmers to slaughter, in order to save the expense of feeding them, young cattle or pigs or any kind of live stock which ought to be reared for breeding purposes, that the Bill would be put into operation; and a panic of that kind would be almost certain to be local in its operation. It might conceivably start in some dairying district or in some pig-breeding district. A number of farmers there might become alarmed and their alarm might affect others and lead to indiscriminate slaughter. In such cases there ought to be meals of stepping in at once. I think my noble friend opposite might be content to leave the carrying out of this emergency measure in the hands of the Board of Agriculture.

LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH
My Lords, I entirely sympathise with the object which the Board of Agriculture have in view, and if I make any criticism of the Bill it is with the purpose of helping it. I see that the power taken is to regulate and restrict slaughter either generally or in a particular area. Surely it will have to be done generally. If it is done in a particular area, is there any power to prevent the owner moving the beast that he wants to slaughter into another area in which the restriction does not operate and killing it there? If you want to restrict slaughter, surely you must also take powers to restrict movement.

§ LORD PARMOOR
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord in charge of the Bill for what he has said as to his Department consulting the advisory committees. Although there is no provision to that effect in the Bill, the noble Lord's undertaking meets my point.

LORD LUCAS
My Lords, in reply to Lord Balfour I may say that the reason why powers are taken to apply restriction only to one district is that we contemplate that it would be in effect for only a short time. If it was found that there was a particular district in which the farmers had taken alarm and were killing unduly, it would probably be sufficient to schedule that district and apply the regulations to it. But if the cattle were sent out of the scheduled district then, of course, the area would have to be increased and the restriction made general. Where a panic arose we should send down our inspectors and try and reason the farmers back into what we regard to be the right frame of mind.

§ LORD ST. DAVIDS
My Lords, though this is a drastic Bill I am sure every one of us wishes to give the most ample power in this matter to His Majesty's Government as long as the war lasts. I think we may safely leave the matter to their discretion and judgment.

LORD HARRIS
Would it not be possible, before an Order is made under this Bill, to issue a notice in the locality stating that it is intended to make the Order? Otherwise the people there may not know what is going to be done.

LORD LUCAS
I cannot give a definite pledge to the noble Lord on that point, but anything we can do in the way he suggests to prevent hardship we will do—consistent, of course, with not defeating the purpose of the Bill.

LORD LUCAS
I move to insert, after Clause 3, a new clause which has been left out, through inadvertence.