Lords Sitting of 27 August 1914

THE WAR.

  NEWS FROM THE FRONT
  THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE): My Lords, before I move the Motion that stands in my name I desire to repeat a quite short statement which was made by the Prime Minister in another place earlier in the afternoon. He stated that—
  "Sir John French reports that he was engaged yesterday against a superior force. He says that his troops fought splendidly. He speaks in high terms of the quality and efficiency of the French Regular troops and their officers, and considers the position and the prospect of the Army in the now impending battle satisfactory."

SYMPATHY WITH BELGIUM.
*THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, I desire now to move—
"That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty praying him to convey to the King of the Belgians the sympathy and admiration with which this House regards the heroic resistance offered by his Army and people to the wanton invasion of his territory, and an assurance of the determination of this country to support in every way the efforts of Belgium to vindicate her own independence and the public law of Europe."
We must all feel that it is the least that we can do in all the circumstances to pay our tribute to the constancy and the honour shown by Belgium and her people. By her action Belgium has ranged herself by the side of the small nations famous in history who have received a crown of glory and credit from their resistance to overwhelming forces. Belgium has ranged herself by the side of Athens and Sparta against Persia, with Switzerland against the whole force of the Roman Empire, and with her forbears of Flanders and the Netherlands against the might of Spain.
It is hard for any of us—I am sure I feel that it is hard for me—to force into our minds full realisation of the events with which this last month has been crammed. It is hard indeed to realise that it is not a calendar month ago since the declaration of war by Austria on Servia made all of us wonder whether the time had come at last when the great calamity of a European conflict could no longer be deferred. That was on
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July 28. And on July 29 the German Government, through our Ambassador at Berlin, made the notorious proposal to us so familiar now to every one in this country, and which has been so correctly characterised by all who have alluded to it. It was on the following day—July 30—that Sir Edward Grey sent the reply not less familiar, which has been like the sound of a trumpet in the ears of all Englishmen ever since. The next day France and Germany were asked whether they would respect that neutrality of Belgium which they had solemnly agreed to protect; and on the same day Germany intimated that it was impossible for her to send a reply, because a reply might give some indication of the military movements which she might feel compelled to take. On the same day France, with no word of demur, announced her intention of respecting the neutrality of Belgium; and, still on the same day, Belgium declared that she would defend her neutrality to the last.
Two days later Germany violated the neutrality of Luxemburg, of less direct concern to us than the violation of the neutrality of Belgium, but in itself an outrage against the public law of Europe. On August 4 the King of the Belgians issued an appeal to those who had guaranteed the neutrality of his kingdom for their diplomatic support; and on the same day the German Government sent to Belgium a bid for their acquiescence in the violation of their neutrality—once more indignantly refused by Belgium. It was on the same day that report reached us that the Germans had entered Belgian territory, and accordingly that same day we sent our Ultimatum to Germany. The House will remember that what I have spoken of as the bid by Germany for Belgian acquiescence in the violation of her neutrality was an offer at the end of the war to respect the independence and integrity of Belgium. That might be taken to mean that Belgium, acquiescing now, at the end of the war would become a German protectorate. We cannot, therefore, be surprised that the offer received no attention.
We pass now to the military operations that took place. On that same day the attack began upon Liége, and it continued with the greatest possible violence and was met by the stoutest possible resistance

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until August 11, when the Germans entered the town of Liége. But the forts of Liége, all honour to them, still held out, and the town has thereby made herself a great historic name. It is important to note, in telling this brief story of the heroic Belgian resistance, what the effect has been upon the war as a whole. There was published by our Press Bureau here on August 15 a statement which makes it clear what that effect was. They said that the resistance of the Liége forts and the intervention of the French Cavalry had had the result of detaining the Germans for eight days on the line of the Meuse, with the result that the French had been able to carry out their mobilisation and concentration without hindrance. That, my Lords, is the great, the almost incalculable, service which the heroic resistance of Belgium has rendered to the operations of the Allies with whom we are ranged. It has always been notorious that the value of time, owing to circumstances with which we are all acquainted, was immense to France and her Allies, and that time, in a measure which even the most sanguine could hardly have ventured to think possible, has been given by the noble resistance of Belgium. Since then, as the House knows, the Belgian Government withdrew to Antwerp on August 17, and on August 20 the German troops occupied Brussels.
But, my Lords, this is not the whole story. It is not only a story of a military invasion encountered with courageous resistance by an inferior military force. It is impossible not to notice what has been authoritatively stated of the conduct of the invaders when we are considering what Belgium has gone through and paying her our respectful tribute. On the highest authority—that of the Belgian Foreign Office—a statement has been published giving details, carefully authenticated as far as possible in the circumstances, of conduct by the invading army contrary to all the laws and usages of war. These statements have been carefully examined by judicial and other high authority, and they must therefore be distinguished from the reports, some of them I dare say unauthenticated or exaggerated, of which so many have appeared in the Press. These reports, which have been published in this country and in Belgium, are supported by evidence which would be held to be conclusive in a Court of Law.
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I need not say that I do not propose to examine into any of the details of those statements. Nor is this any time for us who, as a nation, are engaged in this struggle to give utterance to any sort of threats, or to engage in any kind of prophecies as to what may be the outcome of this tremendous war. But this I do say, that history plainly tells us that no nation has ever outraged public law, or has systematically conducted war by inhuman and brutal methods, without sooner or later paying for it. The time, or the form of punishment or of reparation that may be exacted, it is, of course, impossible to predict; but we do venture to declare that any nation that so conducts itself pays for it soon or late, and pays to the uttermost farthing. It is our part to see that the sword is not sheathed until the fullest assurance is obtained that these great wrongs will be redressed to the full. I am certain that in saying this, and also in expressing in the terms of the Motion our cordial sympathy with the Belgian nation and our determination to do everything that we can, as a nation, to vindicate the independence of that country and the public law of Europe, I shall have the full concurrence of your Lordships' House.
Moved, That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty praying him to convey to the King of the Belgians the sympathy and admiration with which this House regards the heroic resistance offered by his Army and people to the wanton invasion of his territory, and an assurance of the determination of this country to support in every way the efforts of Belgium to vindicate her own independence and the public law of Europe.—(The Marquess of Crewe.)
*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I ask leave to second the Motion which has just been made by the noble Marquess opposite. Those who sit on this side of the House will agree with me when I say that we are glad that the noble Marquess made this Motion this evening, whilst the events to which he has referred are still fresh in our minds, and did not postpone it till a later time. The noble Marquess gave us an interesting outline of the history of the war during the last two or three weeks. It could only be a sketch, but it was a sketch amply sufficient to establish the fact that the conduct of the Belgian Government, of the Belgian

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Army, and of the Belgian people has been of a kind to deserve the tribute of admiration and sympathy which we desire to lay at their feet this evening.
All who are lovers of liberty, all who can appreciate the virtue of self-sacrifice, all who are able to admire patriotism and who entertain respect for Treaty obligations, must feel that Belgium has rendered to the civilised world a signal service by what she has done. If she had been inspired by less glorious ideals, if her standard of honour had been less high, it might have been easy for her to evade these responsibilities and to escape the terrible penalties which have fallen upon her through her observance of them. She might have urged that this dispute had arisen over a question which was far removed from her and her interests. She might have dwelt upon her own comparative weakness as compared with the strength of the Great Powers who are engaged in this colossal struggle. She might have urged that events were moving so rapidly that there was not time for her friends to range themselves at her side when the struggle began. She might have dwelt upon the ruinous consequences to herself and to her people of allowing the first act of this drama to be played upon Belgian soil. But she did none of these things. She never faltered in her sense of what she owed to her own position as an independent State. When the bribe was offered to her she knew how to thrust it on one side. She advanced two simple propositions—first, that to accept the German proposal meant the sacrifice of her honour as a nation; second, that she felt able, in case her territory was violated, to defend her own neutrality. My Lords, no simpler, no more dignified rejoinder could, I venture to say, have been given to the inducements which the German Government did not hesitate to dangle before Belgium as the price of her dishonour.
We know how gallantly Belgium did defend the neutrality of her soil. She has emerged from the struggle bruised but indomitable. Even now we read of the renewal at Antwerp of the same gallant resistance which characterised her initial defence of the position at Liége, and I venture to think that she has come out of this, the first, phase of a great war with a halo of reputation of which any mighty Empire might well be proud.
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If we had been merely disinterested spectators of these events the conduct of Belgium would have claimed our applause and our admiration. But we are not mere spectators. We are the comrades in arms of Belgium, we are her allies, we are associated with her in this vast enterprise, in which our country has so tremendous a stake, and therefore it is that we have to offer to Belgium not merely our admiration, but our gratitude, for the great achievement which she has accomplished. It is not easy for a civilian to estimate the value of what Belgium has contributed to the first phases of the war. This at any rate we may say without fear of contradiction, that it is due to her that the great aggressive movement which might have carried everything before it was effectually checked at the outset. It is not uninstructive to compare what has happened during these first days of the war which is now raging with the events which took place at the beginning of the war of 1870; and if, as I believe, the situation now is a very different one from the situation in 1870 it is, I venture to say, to Belgium that we owe it. It was owing to the readiness of Belgium to sacrifice herself upon the altar of duty that the Allies have gained in this war a period of some two or thee weeks the value of which to us is, I will venture to say, incalculable. But for that delay it would not have been possible for the French Government to complete their mobilisation in time; it would not have been possible for them to bring over their troops in time from Africa; it would not have been possible for them to complete the defences of their fortresses and military positions. And Lot only is that so. But for the time thus gained it would not have been possible for the British Expeditionary Force to take its place, as it did, in the first great battle of this campaign; and we have learned from the gallant Field-Marshal who now holds the seals of the War Office how magnificently that force acquitted itself at what was probably one of the most critical moments in the whole of this campaign.
The noble Marquess dwelt in eloquent words upon the price which the people of Belgium have had to pay for these great achievements. It has indeed been a terrible price. We can, at any rate, offer to them the whole-hearted sympathy of our people. And I will take upon myself to say this. Whatever else may happen

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during the course of the war—and it is a war in which there will be no doubt stirring episodes and great feats of arms—nothing can happen which will more affect public opinion in this country than the conduct of Belgium in this short period of time. Whatever else is forgotten, that episode will remain graven upon the hearts of the people of this country. I believe there is not a man or woman within it who does not pray that in the fulness of time we may be able to give practical proof by our deeds of the gratitude, the sympathy, and the admiration which in feeble words we are seeking to express this evening.
On Question, Motion agreed to, nemine dissentiente, and ordered accordingly: The said Address to be presented to His Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

SLAUGHTER OF ANIMALS BILL. [H.L.]
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD LUCAS): My Lords, the powers which this Bill will confer upon the Board of Agriculture are rather startling, and I will say a few words with regard to the way in which we propose to employ them. First I would like to emphasise the point that this is a purely precautionary measure, and perhaps I may state what has happened which has caused us to think it necessary to bring it forward. At the beginning of the war there occurred in the price of feeding-stuffs, as in the price of almost every other article, a sudden and severe rise, and the result has been that in a good many cases a considerable amount of alarm has been created in the minds of farmers and an uncertainty as to whether it would be possible for them to continue to maintain and feed the number of stock that they habitually have upon their farms. As a matter of fact, since then the price of almost all feeding-stuffs has dropped. We have gone very closely into this question and have had conferences with millers and other producers of feeding-stuffs, and we are satisfied that if things pursue their expected course there will be no need for farmers to have any special alarm on this subject, and no necessity for them to reduce their stock. But the fact that this uncertainty has been created in the minds of farmers—as a matter of fact, a certain amount of slaughtering has taken
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place—has led to a measure of this kind being recommended, first of all by the very strong Consultative Committee of practical agriculturists under the chairmanship of Sir Ailwyn Fellowes, and, secondly, by a large number of other bodies.
The danger that we have to apprehend is that if some unforeseen incident occurs there may be another sudden rise in the price of feeding-stuffs, perhaps more severe than has occurred up to the present time. Probably if anything of that kind did happen it would only be for a short time, but if during that time the farmers took alarm and killed their stock they might do an enormous amount of damage to the breeding stock of the country, which would be particularly serious at a time when we want to be in a strong position at home with regard to the producing of home-grown meat. If circumstances arose under which prices were likely to be kept up for a considerable time and the prohibition to slaughter animals or sell animals for slaughter would mean a heavy loss to farmers, it would not be fair, of course, to apply the steps proposed in this Bill without at any rate some alleviating measure being passed. It is well known to be an evil at the present time, but it is a long-standing evil, that there is a great deal of killing of immature animals in this country, especially in the dairy business—the killing of young calves—which does have a very bad effect upon the supply of cattle of this country. But that is the normal state of things. We do not in this Bill propose to interfere with that. We should never apply these powers in cases where only the normal amount of killing went on. The powers would be employed only where an absolutely abnormal amount of killing, such as would endanger the breeding stock of the country, occurred. The other evil is a great one, but it cannot be dealt with by powers like these and especially at a time like the present. After the explanation which I have given I hope that your Lordships will read the Bill a second time, with the assurance that we at the Board of Agriculture realise fully what a difficult measure this would be to apply and how much hardship could be caused by doing it, and that we shall only apply it in cases where we are convinced, after the fullest knowledge of the circumstances, that the breeding stock of the country was being seriously endangered.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Lucas.)
LORD PARMOOR: My Lords, the noble Lord has pointed out the wide-reaching character of this Bill, and the very drastic method in which it has been drafted. I do not rise to oppose the Bill, because I am sure that all agriculturists at the present time are only too anxious to do everything they can in the public interest, even though it might necessitate the sacrifice of their private interests. I rise to ask the noble Lord a question. He has pointed out that it would be only in exceptional circumstances that the Bill would be put into operation. But the powers in the Bill go much further, and might be exercised in a way which would be very serious as regards the business interests of those engaged in agriculture. I wish to ask whether the Board of Agriculture would agree, in the carrying out of this Bill, to act with an advisory committee representative of agricultural interests. The introduction of a consultative committee would be a guarantee that the Bill would not be used outside the limits indicated by the noble Lord.
LORD HARRIS: My Lords, I should like to interpolate one suggestion in connection with the question which has just been asked by Lord Parmoor. If the President of the Board of Agriculture is able to hold out any hope of his Board working in connection with an advisory committee, I would suggest that the county farmers committees or chambers of agriculture would be the best bodies in each case, because then you would have the local opinion.
LORD LUCAS: My Lords, I entirely agree that it is of the greatest importance to have the help of local opinion in this matter. We are dealing with the whole question of live stock by means of the machinery that we already have at hand. We have our advisory councils, most competent bodies, and also the live stock committees of those advisory councils, the members of which are chosen because they are practical breeders and practical farmers. I should be most happy, if that would meet the point of noble Lords opposite, to undertake that we would make use of these committees and discuss the matter with them before applying the Bill to any district.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: My Lords, this Bill as it stands is the most drastic measure I have ever read. The Board of Agriculture are empowered to
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form their own opinion of what breeding stock is required, and are given power absolutely to control the whole of this trade. The noble Lord in charge of the Bill has been good enough to say that he is quite prepared to consult the committees to which he referred. We are very much obliged to him for that undertaking. At the same time there is nothing in the Bill which in any way makes that consultation necessary. I hope that when we take the Committee stage the noble Lord will agree to the insertion of an Amendment to make his promise good.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, it cannot, of course, be disputed that the phrasing of this Bill gives very wide and drastic powers to the Department. On the other hand, it is reasonable to consider that it is purely an emergency measure, and one which it is hardly possible to suppose would become part of the permanent law of the land. It clearly could be only in expectation of, or at any rate under dread of, a possible panic which would induce farmers to slaughter, in order to save the expense of feeding them, young cattle or pigs or any kind of live stock which ought to be reared for breeding purposes, that the Bill would be put into operation; and a panic of that kind would be almost certain to be local in its operation. It might conceivably start in some dairying district or in some pig-breeding district. A number of farmers there might become alarmed and their alarm might affect others and lead to indiscriminate slaughter. In such cases there ought to be meals of stepping in at once. I think my noble friend opposite might be content to leave the carrying out of this emergency measure in the hands of the Board of Agriculture.
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH: My Lords, I entirely sympathise with the object which the Board of Agriculture have in view, and if I make any criticism of the Bill it is with the purpose of helping it. I see that the power taken is to regulate and restrict slaughter either generally or in a particular area. Surely it will have to be done generally. If it is done in a particular area, is there any power to prevent the owner moving the beast that he wants to slaughter into another area in which the restriction does not operate and killing it there? If you want to restrict slaughter, surely you must also take powers to restrict movement.
LORD PARMOOR: My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord in charge of the Bill for what he has said as to his Department consulting the advisory committees. Although there is no provision to that effect in the Bill, the noble Lord's undertaking meets my point.
LORD LUCAS: My Lords, in reply to Lord Balfour I may say that the reason why powers are taken to apply restriction only to one district is that we contemplate that it would be in effect for only a short time. If it was found that there was a particular district in which the farmers had taken alarm and were killing unduly, it would probably be sufficient to schedule that district and apply the regulations to it. But if the cattle were sent out of the scheduled district then, of course, the area would have to be increased and the restriction made general. Where a panic arose we should send down our inspectors and try and reason the farmers back into what we regard to be the right frame of mind.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: My Lords, though this is a drastic Bill I am sure every one of us wishes to give the most ample power in this matter to His Majesty's Government as long as the war lasts. I think we may safely leave the matter to their discretion and judgment.
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Committee negatived.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 3ª.—(Lord Lucas.)
LORD HARRIS: Would it not be possible, before an Order is made under this Bill, to issue a notice in the locality stating that it is intended to make the Order? Otherwise the people there may not know what is going to be done.
LORD LUCAS: I cannot give a definite pledge to the noble Lord on that point, but anything we can do in the way he suggests to prevent hardship we will do—consistent, of course, with not defeating the purpose of the Bill.
On Question, Bill read 3ª.
LORD LUCAS: I move to insert, after Clause 3, a new clause which has been left out, through inadvertence.
Amendment moved—
Insert as a new clause:
"This Act may be cited as the 'Slaughter of Animals Act, 1914.'"—(Lord Lucas.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Bill passed, and sent to the Commons.

THE SUPPLY OF CEREALS.
*VISCOUNT MILNER: My Lords, I rise to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether in view of the certainty of a world shortage of cereals, and especially of wheat, in 1915, the Government propose to take any steps to ensure an adequate supply in this country, and whether such steps include any encouragement to British farmers to increase the area sown with wheat this autumn. I had some hesitation in putting this Notice on the Paper, or, indeed, in raising any question at the present moment, because I feel strongly that there is only one thought uppermost in the minds of us all and only one point to which all our efforts should be directed, and that is victory in the present struggle. I should not like to do anything to distract the attention or to waste the time of any Government official, high or low, by bringing forward questions which, however important in themselves, have, in view of a great world crisis, for the moment only a subordinate interest. But I do not think that that applies to this great question, because obviously the state of the supplies in this country under our own control may have the most momentous effect upon the course of the struggle in which we are engaged.
I am told on the best authority that the supply of food in this country at the present time is unusually large; the prices, as we see, have not risen excessively; and therefore there is no fear for the immediate future. But is not that rather a reason why the Government should seize this opportunity, when supplies are large and when the price is cheap, to get reserve stocks under their own control which would enable them to keep the price down and prevent a corner being made in any particular article of consumption, such as wheat, at the period when the pinch will come, which I take it we may expect in the early months of next year, if the war continues? That is one

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point. But there is another and, to my mind, an even more important point to which I wish to direct the noble Lord's attention, and to which, indeed, my Question primarily applies. Whatever happens in regard to the harvest of the present year, it seems to me inconceivable that the harvest of next year should not greatly suffer from what is now going on. I am directing attention specially to the wheat supply, or rather I should say the wheat and rye supply, of the world. For the object which I have in view to-day the two must be taken together.
I think I am right in saying that the total wheat and rye supply of the world amounts normally to something between 600,000,000 and 700,000,000 quarters. More than half of that is produced by countries the whole able-bodied population of which is at the present time engaged in war. Those countries are engaged in a struggle of a most desperate character, which is calling upon the whole of their resources in manhood. It is possible to exaggerate the effect of this. I do not mean to say either that the present harvest will not be got in or that the ground will not be prepared in some sort of fashion for the harvest of next year. I am old enough to remember what happened in Germany in 1870. During the whole of the war I was living in that country and I remember that it was astonishing, when the great armies swept forward to the front, what the remaining population managed to do in the way of getting in the harvest. I do not think there was any loss at all, though there was difficulty in preparing the ground for the sowing of the fresh crops. As the war went on there was a great falling off in labour; and I do not imagine that the drain upon the labour of Germany in 1870, the drain especially upon agricultural labour, was anything like what it is likely to be in the present year. And, mind you, then it was only a case of Germany and of France having between them a production of some 100,000,000 quarters; whereas now Austria-Hungary and Russia, with their upwards of 200,000,000 quarters, are equally involved.
It seems to me an absolute certainty that next year will see a great shortage in the supply of the two principal food stuffs of the world. One does not need to be a great economist to realise what a shortage
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of 20, or even of 10, per cent. in the supply of an article of universal necessity must mean in the rise of prices. It may be said—I think it can truly be said—that this country is rot as much affected as others, owing to the fact that the transoceanic supply is shut off from a great part of the Continent of Europe while it remains open to us. We at any rate shall be able, if we keep the seas open, as we all hope we shall, to be amply supplied. Yes, my Lords. But in the first place that assumes that there will be no unfortunate accident to our control of the sea highways. And beyond that, assuming that the war was over sooner than we now think likely, that it was over I next spring or within the next few months, in that case it seems to me that a rise of prices in this country would be even a greater certainty than if the war were going on, because in the case of peace all the countries of the world would be competing for the trans-oceanic supplies. By emergency measures the Government might control the price of wheat in this country, but it could not control the world price. From that point of view it seems to me that our only insurance is a large supply under our own control actually within the shores of this country, with which the Government could deal if there was a famine rise all over tire world.
I know of no way of insuring this except by a large increase in our production of wheat during the coming year. The time is very short. If anything material is to be done to encourage British farmers to increase the area sown with wheat it must be done in the next month or two. The Government have had the benefit of the advice of the consultative committee to whom the President of the Board of Agriculture has already referred. The names of the members of that committee command our confidence. It would be a matter of great interest to this House if the noble Lord, should he feel free to do so, could tell us what that committee have recommended and what steps the Government feel justified in taking with regard to those recommendations. I hardly like to make any suggestions myself. I do not claim to be a practical agriculturist, although I happen to have had perhaps quite exceptional experience of what can be done by emergency measures to provide a food supply for a country threatened with famine in consequence of war.

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It is a question, to my mind, of the encouragement to be given to farmers. First of all, they should be made to realise what the situation is; and, secondly, the assurance should be given them that if they risk something, if they upset their ordinary method of procedure in order to increase the most vital of the food supplies of this country, they will be insured against the possibility of loss. Personally I do not think there is the remotest chance that farmers will lose by a very greatly increased cultivation of wheat in the present year. But they may be of a different opinion; they may feel doubtful as to the effect of such a course. Is it not possible for the Government to take a certain risk in order to insure farmers against loss if they do take that course?
It is no use dealing with this matter it any niggling way. Unless our wheat production could be more than doubled next year I do not think the situation would be materially affected. It is the opinion of many first-rate agriculturists that with an effort this could be done. It could be done by increasing very considerably the area under wheat. It could also be done by an increased use of fertilisers, which I believe all the best agriculturists to-day admit render a second cropping of the same land with wheat a perfectly feasible and practical operation. Next to a victory in the field there is nothing of greater importance to this country than a close attention to the question of our independence, or such independence as we can achieve, whether by storage or by increased production, in the matter of the most vital of all our food supplies—namely, wheat.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: My Lords, before the President of the Board of Agriculture replies I should like to say a few words. As I understand, the noble Viscount's suggestions are two. First, that the Government should take advantage of the present low price of wheat to make a store in this country. Of that suggestion I make no complaint. Wheat is low in price and plentiful, and, without taking the pessimistic view of the noble Viscount as to the shortage next year, I think it might conceivably be wise for the Government to make a store of wheat now, merely to reassure the public, even if they do not believe that there is going to be any shortage next year. I cannot
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help thinking that the noble Viscount is an alarmist in asserting that there is a "certainty of a world shortage of cereals, and especially of wheat, in 1915." That is a most alarming statement, and the one thing which none of us ought to do is to alarm anybody. It is quite probable that with Germany, France, and Russia at war there will be a diminution in the supply so far as those countries are concerned. At the same time we know that in France and Germany, while the fighting men are away, the amount of work done by the elderly men and by the women and even by the children to make up for the deficiency is extraordinary.
VISCOUNT MILNER: It is extraordinary, but it does not make up the deficiency. It did not in 1870 over a much smaller area.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: If other people believe that there is going to be a shortage in the world's supply there will be larger areas sown in India, in Australia, in Argentina, in the United States, and in Canada. Therefore I think the noble Viscount is going very far in prophecy when he says that there is a certainty of a world shortage in 1915. In all the markets, not only in Great Britain but all over the world, there are clever men dealing daily—gambling, if you like—in produce. There are men watching every storm, every drought, every cloud of locusts, every single thing that can affect a crop anywhere, and putting prices up or down accordingly. You must remember this fact, that wheat was very low in price the day on which war was declared. The price rose suddenly on a panic for a few days, but it has come down to the figure at which it stood before the war. If these produce brokers thought there was going to be a great shortage in 1915 the price of wheat to-day would be double, or more than double, what it is. It is obvious from the price of wheat, and from that alone, that the cleverest men in the markets who are dealing with this commodity do not share the view of the noble Viscount. In agreeing to the noble Viscount's suggestion that the Government might make a store of wheat, I do so more with the idea that a panic or risk of a panic should be prevented than with any idea that there is going to be a shortage. If our fleets hold their

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own, as we all believe they will, there will be plenty of wheat that can be imported into this country.
I come now to the noble Viscount's other argument—that His Majesty's Government should hold out inducements to British farmers to increase the area sown with wheat. What good is that going to do us? Ours is a small country with a large population. It is a country the greater part of half of which—the Western half—is wholly unsuited to the growing of wheat, and I believe it would be a misfortune to the country to urge farmers to grow wheat under unnatural conditions. Many of the older members of the House can recall the days when the grass lands on the Downs of Wiltshire and Hampshire, grass lands that were admirable sheep runs and ought never to have been interfered with, were broken up, many of them at the time of the Crimean war, to grow wheat. They grew a crop or two, but no more. It would be a misfortune if farmers were encouraged from a false idea of patriotism to repeat that mistake. The best agriculturists agree that more land has been broken up in Great Britain to grow wheat than ever ought to have been put under wheat.
VISCOUNT MILNER: No, no. I could mention the names of some leading agriculturists of Great Britain who hold very strongly the opposite view. I would ask the noble Lord the President of the Board of Agriculture to say whether it is the opinion of his consultative committee that land is at present unprofitably cultivated in wheat and that it would be an advantage to this country to cultivate less land in wheat.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: I did not say that. I said that more lard had been broken up in this country to grow wheat than ought to have been broken up. I was talking of the past. I am not saying that at the present moment you could not grow a certain amount more wheat in this country with advantage.
VISCOUNT MILNER: I misunderstood the noble Lord and apologise for my interruption. He was referring to too much land having been broken up during the wars of the past. I do not dispute that.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: My anxiety is to try and dissuade the Government from doing anything rashly in a panic which would lead to a repetition of the state of things to which I have referred. The best agriculturists have been of late years, with much labour and at great expense, putting back under grass land that never ought to have been broken up, and it would be a misfortune if those men were now told that it was their patriotic duty to break up the grass they have been laying down and put wheat on the land again. This is a very small country with a very small acreage. After all, we cannot grow everything. In the last few weeks we have seen whit the shortage of horses is. Directly this war is over the Government will have to take up the question of horse breeding. If you break up more and more of the good grass lands you are not going to do any service to the breeding of horses and the breeding of cattle. What we have to do at the present time is to encourage people not to be afraid and to deprecate any panic, and I do not believe for a moment that it would be a good thing for the Government to take the advice of the noble Viscount and encourage farmers, under the idea that they are benefiting their country, to grow wheat on land that is not adapted for that purpose.
LORD LUCAS: My Lords, I am afraid that I cannot give the noble Viscount a very definite reply—for the reason, not that we have not been considering this question very deeply, but because we are at the present moment in the middle of our deliberations upon the subject. I can give him the assurance that the Cabinet Committee on Food Supplies consider the question of the supply of wheat one of the most important of the questions with which they have to deal, and are now giving it their most serious attention.
There are, as the noble Viscount says, two quite distinct problems to deal with. One is the position that is going to occur in the world's market of wheat next spring when the crop at present being harvested begins to run low, and the second is the question of what is going to be done, if anything in that direction is necessary, to stimulate the sowing of an extra amount of wheat next year. As to whether or not it is necessary for the

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Government to take any steps, it is obviously impossible to make any statement now. On the other question I agree with my noble friend behind me who spoke last, that the matter is not so simple as the noble Viscount on the Cross Benches seems to think. I am quite sure that if farmers were invited to put a much larger acreage of land under wheat they would willingly respond to the invitation. It would be quite easy to increase very largely the acreage under wheat, and probably, if it was worth while to take the step, we could get sufficient wheat grown in this country to provide us with six months supply, and that in the case of a national shortage would be a very important consideration. But I can assure the noble Viscount that the question is not quite as simple and as straightforward as that, and that the considerations which Lord St. Davids has placed before your Lordships are very cogent ones and regard has to be had to them. If we were to invite the farmers to put a largely increased acreage of land under wheat we might be faced with the prospect of having to apply to Parliament for grants to make good the losses of the farmers should this measure of precaution turn out to have been unnecessary. I can assure your Lordships that the matter is receiving the most careful consideration of the Cabinet Committee on Food Supplies, and I can say for that body that the steps which we may take in the matter will be taken in plenty of time to enable farmers to grow more wheat if we decide that it is the right policy to ask them to do so.
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH: My Lords, both of the suggestions which were prominent in the speech of Lord Milner are dealt with very fully in the voluminous Report of the Royal Commission over which I presided some years ago. The question of giving subsidies to farmers in this country to grow wheat was very fully discussed, and four or five plans were put before us which we criticised in a friendly way but we were unable to recommend them as part of a permanent policy to be pursued by this country. I am one of those who do not think that the certainty of a shortage next year is as clear as the noble Viscount on the Cross Benches seems to consider. We must remember that the harvest goes on practically the whole year round, because there are now, by the facility of transit, enormous supplies of
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wheat to be got from the Southern Hemisphere; and one of the things brought before the Royal Commission by those prominent in the wheat trade was that the prospect of a rise almost certainly brought out wheat from stores in a great many countries, and that a general rise in the price of wheat, so far as could then be foreseen, was improbable. The Final Report of the Royal Commission was published in 1905, and I venture to suggest to those interested that they will find a good many arguments on both sides on both of these questions set out in that Report.
I admit that the special circumstances this year may be peculiar, and that it may be well worth the consideration of the Government whether, as a purely temporary measure, they should offer a certain premium upon land already in cultivation which could be put under wheat. But there are two great difficulties. The question will arise as to whether it will have to be a bounty on the wheat actually produced or upon the acreage put under wheat. There are obvious disadvantages in the latter course, because not the best land might be selected and the results would not be commensurate with the expenditure. With regard to the suggestion of having Government stores of wheat, I venture to hope that the criticisms in our Report on that subject will be examined. There are very great difficulties about the Government going into trade in a matter of this kind. To begin with, wheat is a perishable article, and if the Government accumulated a large stock the question would arise as to whether they should sell or whether they should hold and their action might disarrange the quotations and markets all over the world.
I venture to suggest that before a scheme of this kind is advocated by any responsible persons it would be well for them to look at the arguments which we marshalled and put in as convenient a form as I think it was possible to put them. A perusal of the statistics in that Report will show the range of countries which can produce wheat, and the certainty from previous experience—I take India as an example—that the moment the price rises in other parts of the world the population of India take not to using

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wheat but to exporting it and to living upon other produce which they have. I venture to think that the reply given by the President of the Board of Agriculture to-day was a judicious one. He told us that the matter was being considered, and if he will pay us the compliment of considering it in the light of the facts and statistics which we brought together in the Report to which I have referred I am sure he will find a great deal of useful material. And I may add that if the experience which I gained in the five years that I presided over the Royal Commission would be of any use to the Government in this matter, they have only to ask for it and it will be cordially given.
LORD MAC DONNELL OF SWINFORD: My Lords, I rise to say a few words in support of what the noble Lord has just stated with regard to the great inadvisability of the Government holding stocks. If there is any experience on a large scale to be found in any country, that country is India. During the many famines from which in recent times India has suffered, the question of accumulating Government stocks came most prominently to notice. At first the idea found great favour, but as experience accumulated it was entirely abandoned. Although the Government can do far more than any individual trader, the Government cannot do as much as all traders put together; and any action taken by the Government in the way of accumulating stocks discourages private enterprise, and, in the end, leads to great disaster.
LORD LUCAS: My Lords, I desire to express my thanks to Lord Balfour for the offer which be made, and to say that I shall lay it before the Cabinet Committee on Food Supplies. The noble Viscount on the Cross Benches asked for the opinion of the Consultative Committee on these matters. The Consultative Committee have been kind enough to report upon the two questions with which the noble Viscount dealt, and they have made recommendations with regard to both of them—first with regard to the idea of taking steps to maintain in this country a certain amount of this year's English crop; and, secondly, with regard to extending the acreage under wheat for next year. I am bringing both of those recommendations before the Cabinet Committee.
VISCOUNT MILNER: My Lords, I am much obliged to the noble Lord for the answer he has given. The matter, however, is one of such peat importance that the House will, perhaps, forgive me if I appear unduly persistent. I would like to make one or two remarks upon the criticisms which have been passed on these proposals. I am indebted to Lord Balfour for calling my attention to the Report of the Royal Commission, with which I am familiar though I have not consulted it within the last few days. I am aware of all the arguments which have been adduced—and strong arguments they are—against Government stores. I did not go the length of advocating Government stores. What I said was that I thought it would be an advantage if the Government could get control over at least a portion of the present supply in this country, with a view of being able more effectively to control the price next year if it was necessary to do so. As regards the major proposition—the encouragement of production in this country—I think I am entitled to demur to the suggestion that if one tries to point out a danger and to avert an evil one is thereby encouraging panic. There is nothing "panicky" in my attitude.
LORD ST. DAVIDS: It was not on that point that I said the noble Viscount was encouraging panic. I said that he was encouraging panic when he stated definitely that there must certainly be a shortage in the world's supply in 1915.
VISCOUNT MILNER: Well, that is my conviction. I admit that it is always a mistake to talk of certainty in regard to anything; but, humanly speaking, it is certain. I have pointed out that the countries at present engaged in a life and death struggle which is bound, unless all past experience is misleading, materially to affect their agricultural operations, are the producers of half of the whole of the wheat and rye of the world. I submit that that condition of things indicates an overwhelming probability of a shortage, and that as reasonable people we ought to take it into consideration and lay our plans accordingly. It is not as if the suggestion that steps should be taken to increase the wheat supply of this country was running counter to general considerations, because there is a strong preponderance of opinion amongst the best agriculturists that we

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have gone too far, from the point of view of agriculture, in abandoning the production of wheat; and it would be a positive advantage, even were there no prospect of a deficiency next year, to encourage further production.
My suggestion has no reference to the proposal to break up good pasture lands. I admit that even in an emergency that would be an unwise course to pursue. But is there any likelihood of that? In the first place, there could be a considerable increase in the production of wheat if farmers were encouraged to undertake it upon existing arable land; and, in the next place, there is undoubtedly a great deal of land which has dropped down to pasture that is very wretched pasture, and the reconversion of which into arable land has long been advocated by the most experienced agriculturists. I am grateful to the noble Lord the President of the Board of Agriculture for his explanation, and I feel confident that, with the attention which the Board of Agriculture are paying to the representations of the consultative committee, the result on further consideration is likely to be more favourable to the policy which I have ventured to advocate than the noble Lord seems to indicate at the present moment. At any rate, I am glad to know that the subject is receiving the urgent attention of the Department, and I hope that the time which we have spent in discussing it this evening may not be without advantage.

ARTICLES OF COMMERCE (RETURNS, &c.) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, which is an emergency measure to give powers in connection with the present war to obtain information as to stocks of articles of commerce and for enabling possession to be taken of any such articles unreasonably withheld—
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: The noble Lord is moving the Second Reading of a Bill which has only a moment ago been brought up from the other House. I am not aware that all our Standing Orders have been suspended, and that we have arrived at the condition when any number of Bills can be brought up and passed through all their stages straight away.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: In reply to my noble friend opposite I may say that we have, as a matter of fact, come to the condition which he mentions, of course on the understanding that only Bills would be put through which were of an urgent or what is called an emergency character. The two Standing Orders which apply have been in fact suspended for the remainder of the session.
LORD WIMBORNE: I hope the noble Earl will be satisfied with that explanation.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: I am not at all satisfied.
LORD WIMBORNE: We are living in exceptional times, and it is necessary that Bills of an emergency character should be passed through all their stages without delay. If the noble Earl will look at this Bill—
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: How can I look at it? We have no copies of the Bill. It was only a minute or two ago that the House ordered the Bill to be printed.
LORD WIMBORNE: I am sorry that noble Lords have not been able to see the Bill, and I will therefore explain it at length. Clause 1, subsection (1), gives the Board of Trade power to require returns for the purpose of obtaining information as to the quantity in the United Kingdom, or in transit to the United Kingdom, of any articles of commerce, and the Board are given power to serve a notice on any person supposed to be in possession of any article of commerce requiring him to state within a specified period what quantity of such article is in his possession. Subsection (2) gives the Board power, for the purpose of testing the accuracy of any return which may be made to them on this subject, to require a duly authorised officer of the Board to enter the premises of any person suspected of withholding information on the subject and verify for their own satisfaction the statements submitted as to the quantities of articles of commerce so

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held. That is rather on the analogy of the powers which factory inspectors possess. Subsection (3) deals with penalties. They are the more or less ordinary sort of penalties which would apply to cases of this kind. Any person wilfully refusing or neglecting to give information, or making a false return, or obstructing or impeding any officer of the Board is liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £100, or, if the Court is of opinion that the offence was committed wilfully, to imprisonment with or without hard labour for a period not exceeding three months.
Clause 2 deals with quite another matter—the power of the Board to take possession of any such articles of commerce which they think are being unreasonably withheld, and to do so at such a figure as may be agreed upon between the Board and the person concerned, or as the result of the arbitration of a Judge of the High Court selected by the Lord Chief Justice of England in England and by the corresponding legal authorities in Scotland alai Ireland. Clause 3 is merely to enable the Board of Trade to make arrangements with other Departments to act for them; and Clause 4 defines what an "owner" is, and so forth. The scope of the Bill is quite clear. The discussion which we have recently had with regard to the possibility of a rise in price and its effect upon the cattle supply of this country will suggest at once to your Lordships the sort of objects for which this Bill might be used. This is an emergency measure designed to extend only to the period of the war, and it is on all fours with other emergency and preventive measures which have received the sanction of both Houses of Parliament. In these circumstances I hope that your Lordships will see your way to pass the Bill through all its stages to-day. It is, of course, important that these powers should be obtained at once, and I think the House may rest assured that they will not be harshly or unjustifiably applied, and that nothing will be done to restrict legitimate commerce. It is merely with a view to taking such precautionary measures as may be rendered necessary by the exceptional and urgent state of affairs in which we find ourselves to-day that we ask for these powers.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, we are invited to discuss this Bill and other Bills under conditions which render it absolutely impossible for us to satisfy ourselves as to their contents and as to the manner in which they will operate. I am afraid we have to accept that as a necessity arising out of the urgency of the moment; and I hope that His Majesty's Government will take note of the fact that, in our desire not to impede them in carrying legislation which they deem essential to meet the difficulties of the moment, we are not in any way standing upon our rights or insisting upon the amount of scrutiny and investigation to which we are certainly entitled. With regard to this Bill, I note one point which seems to me to require a word of explanation. Under Clause I. subsection (2), any officer of the Government Department "authorised in that behalf by the Board" may enter premises and satisfy himself with regard to the articles of commerce contained on those premises. Will the noble Lord in charge of the Bill tell us what is meant by an authorised officer? Does it mean an officer holding a formal authority from the Government Department to do these things, or may any gentleman suddenly descend upon the business premises of an unfortunate tradesman and say that he is an authorised agent and thereupon conduct an inquisitorial examination into the affairs of that trader?
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, with regard to what has fallen from the noble Marquess the Leader of the Opposition, may say that we quite appreciate the attitude which he and his friends have taken, and we are grateful to them for raising no objection to the prompt and somewhat hurried passing of these Bills. At the same time it is only right to point out that if we chose to carry on prolonged sittings for their consideration there is nothing to prevent our doing so. It would be, I think, rather a waste of your Lordships' time, but there is nothing to prevent our carrying on, perhaps at somewhat inconvenient hours, a considerable examination of these measures.
So far as this particular measure is concerned, it is, in fact, an extension of the action with regard to food stuffs which was taken, as the House will remember, quite early in the day when the crisis

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began. There was a tendency at that time to lock up, sometimes from motives of foolish panic and sometimes, perhaps, from still more unworthy motives, supplies of food stuffs to the public disadvantage. It has been found necessary to extend that power of prohibition to a number of other articles which will be scheduled under powers given by this Bill. With regard to the particular question which the noble Marquess asked, of course it is clear that incursions on to private property for the purpose of ascertaining whether there is an undue collection of any of the articles in question could only be made by a person acting under Departmental authority, and I think the noble Marquess can be quite easy in his mind that no abuse will be allowed of the powers which are given by this, I admit, somewhat drastic provision. As I have stated, and as my noble friend made clear from his original statement, this is simply an extension of a principle which was adopted by common agreement quite early in the day. We have seen in the public Press complaints of the over solicitude of individuals, sometimes from quite honourable motives, in collecting articles of commerce which ought to be at the public disposal. We have heard the singular complaint that, owing to the operations in that direction of a number of benevolently inclined people, hospital stores of all kinds have become almost unpurchasable with the result that hospitals are unable to know where to look for such articles as, for instance, carbolic acid. Therefore a measure of this kind is absolutely necessary.
LORD PARMOOR: My Lords, it is impossible, of course, to discuss in detail an autocratic and drastic measure of this kind, which I understand is introduced for emergency purposes only. But the noble Lord in charge of the Bill said that the same machinery was being adopted as regards the officer of the Board authorised to enter premises as had already been adopted under the Factory Acts.
LORD WIMBORNE: It is on the analogy of the Factory Acts.
LORD PARMOOR: I would point out that there is no analogy between what is proposed in this Bill and what is carried out under the Factory Acts. The provision in the Factory Acts is that every
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officer authorised to enter premises shall be furnished by the Board with a certificate of his authority, and in applying for entry into any premises he must, if so required, produce the said certificate to the occupier. The object of that is that no unauthorised person should enter premises alleging that he had the authority of the Board of Trade. Surely if there are to be drastic proposals of this kind some protection should be given in this Bill, as in the Factory Acts, to secure that no person should enter premises unless he has the certificate of the Board of Trade and produces it before he exercises his right of entry. I hope that on that point some satisfactory answer may be given, because it is a very drastic proposal to allow any one to enter upon premises the owner of which has no guarantee as to whether or not he is an authorised officer.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: My Lords, thanks to the courtesy of Lord Lucas I have had a copy of this Bill, as printed for the House of Commons, put into my hands. I notice that it gives power to the Government to obtain complete trading information. That is something which traders do not like to reveal without some assurance. I would therefore ask the noble Lord in charge of the Bill for an assurance that in normal cases, where no offence is shown, the information will be treated as wholly confidential.
LORD WIMBORNE: That is provided for in Clause 1, subsection (4).
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: That subsection enacts that no individual return or part of a return made under this Bill, and no information obtained under the Bill, shall be published or disclosed except for the purposes of a prosecution under the Bill. That does not meet my point. What I mean is that the information shall be kept within the Department which will have to administer this Bill. The Board of Trade are given power in the Bill to obtain information which traders will not wish to be given to other Government Departments. Therefore I ask for an assurance that the information obtained will only be used within the Government Department concerned with the administration of this Bill. I understand that the noble Lord is prepared to give that assurance.
LORD WIMBORNE: Yes.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: I notice, from a hasty perusal of the Bill, that the Government may take possession of articles, but no power is conferred to sell or distribute those articles. What is it proposed to do with them? What is the agency of distribution? That is a point which will have to be put right. I suppose it will be met by an Order in Council, but no doubt the noble Lord in charge of the Bill will consider that point. The policy of fixing maximum prices has its disadvantages. The maximum price ipso facto becomes the minimum sale price, and if you make a habit of fixing maximum prices, as has practically been done to-day, you cut from beneath our feet the very pillar and foundation on which we hope to rest during this period—namely, the inducement to foreign traders to rush their exports to this country. I therefore strongly urge that that form of competition should not be discouraged.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE): I would call your Lordships' attention to Clause 4, subsection (4), which provides that this Bill shall have effect only while a state of war exists between His Majesty and any foreign Power, and for a period of six months thereafter.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: Under that subsection this Bill could have been in operation, with just a few years' interval, practically since the Crimean War. "A state of war between His Majesty and any foreign Power and six months thereafter," would almost cover the history of the Afghan frontier. We must be given some assurance that the Bill is to have effect only during the present war, and is not to become a permanent Act.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: It is not intended that this Bill should be operative except for the purposes of the present emergency—that is to say, during the present war. The desire of the Government is to reduce interference with the ordinary course of business as much as possible. The emergency makes it necessary that we should possess these powers. By Clause 3 the Board of Trade is empowered to make arrangements with any other Government Department for the exercise by that Department on behalf of the Board of Trade of the powers of the Board under this Bill with respect to any particular article of commerce. Lord Parmoor desires that the officer who enters upon premises should give
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evidence of the authority which be possesses. Of course, no officer could enter premises unless he was duly authorised. That is quite clear from Clause 1, subsection (2). He must be an "officer of the Board authorised in that behalf by the Board"; otherwise he would be a trespasser and could be resisted. I quite agree that the officer should have some certificate, and my noble friend in charge of tae Bill will communicate with the Board of Trade on that point and arrange that then shall be a certificate. If Lord Parmoor will be content with that undertaking, he will have secured the object he has in view without the necessity of delaying the Bill.
LORD PARMOOR: I think that the noble and learned Viscount's suggestion would meet the difficulty, and that an Amendment in the circumstances would be unnecessary. But there is this further point. It is not only that a certificate should be given to the officer of the Board of Trade, but that the owner should have the right to ask that that certificate should be shown to him before a particular individual enters upon his premise. That would not preclude an authorised officer from entering, but it would prevent from doing so an unauthorised person who might take advantage of the Act and seek to enter premises.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, I will undertake to represent to the Board of Trade the points which have been raised by the noble and learned Lord opposite (Lord Parmoor). I have no doubt whatever that the Board will be able to take such steps as will meet the difficulty which he contemplates, and in that way protect traders from unauthorised trespass on the part of persons who have nothing whatever to do with the Board of Trade or the carrying out of this Bill. As to the point raised by Lord Crawford, who inquired what the Board of Trade would do with the articles which they had acquired, I may say that their object, of course, would be to distribute them, to pat them on the market. They would not take action at all if they were not certain that articles were being held up, that there was a demand for them, and that they ought to be circulated in the market in the ordinary way. In my opinion the fact that the Board would possess the powers conferred in this Bill would be sufficient to stop very largely, if not wholly, the action of holding up. I think it is very unlikely that it will often come to a forced sale, for which Clause 2 provides.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: Does the noble Lord say that Clause 2 gives the Board of Trade power to sell?
LORD WIMBORNE: Under Clause 2 the Board of Trade have power to purchase, either by agreement or as the result of arbitration. Their object in purchasing would be, no doubt, to sell.
THE EARL OF CRAWFORD: How and to whom?
LORD WIMBORNE: If it is true, for instance, that, owing to mistaken zeal on the part of some voluntary hospital association, a sort of run has been made upon a commodity needed for hospitals and that in consequence there is a shortage of that article, this Bill would enable the Board of Trade to acquire, either voluntarily or by arbitration, from that mistaken voluntary association such article, and, if necessary, supply it at the same price at which they had acquired it to the hospitals which needed it. As I have said, I think that the mere fact that the Board would possess such powers would go a long way to preventing articles being unreasonably withheld.
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 263.)

CUSTOMS (EXPORTATION PROHIBITION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, this is also an emergency Bill. Its object is to extend the prohibition which the Board of Trade may impose under Section 8 of the Customs and Inland Revenue Act, 1879. The Bill provides that Section 8 of the Act of 1879, which enables the exportation of certain articles to be prohibited, shall have effect, whilst a state of war in which His Majesty is engaged exists, as if in add-
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tion to the articles therein mentioned there were included all other articles of every description. By Clause 2 any Proclamation or Order in Council made under the said section as so amended may, whilst a state of war exists, be varied or added to by an Order made by the Lords of the Council on the recommendation of the Board of Trade.
By this Bill the Board of Trade will have power to prohibit during the war the exportation of any article which they think in the public interest should not be exported. It is also provided that the Privy Council should be able to make alterations without the signature of the King; this is to enable any small variation, which the Board may find to be desirable, to be carried through with as little formality as possible. We have had several instances of the undesirability of the free export of articles being permitted, as is normally the case, and I think many instances will occur to your Lordships where it would be very undesirable for this country to be deprived at the present time, owing to the tempting prices which might prevail elsewhere, of commodities which may be as necessary to the welfare of this country as any other sinews of war. I can assure your Lordships that in utilising these powers the Board of Trade will have the greatest regard to legitimate trading interests. They will use the powers very sparingly, and only where they are convinced that it is in the public interest that the prohibition should be enforced.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 267.)

DEFENCE OF THE REALM (No. 2) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, this No. 2 Bill makes some small extensions of the Defence of the Realm Act, 1914, passed a few days ago, by which His Majesty in Council has power, during the continuance of the present war, to issue regulations as to the powers and duties of the Admiralty and Army Council and of the members of His Majesty's forces and other persons acting in his behalf, for securing the public safety and the defence of the realm; and His Majesty may, by such regulations, authorise the trial by courts martial and punishment of persons contravening any of the provisions of such regulations designed (a) to prevent persons communicating with the enemy or Obtaining information for that purpose or any purpose calculated to jeopardise the success of the operations of any of His Majesty's forces or to assist the enemy; or (b) to secure the safety of any means of communication, or of railways, docks, or harbours.
These emergency measures were hurriedly drawn, with the result that certain omissions took place. It has been found necessary to ask your Lordships to amend the Defence of the Realm Act. The No. 2 Bill which I am now submitting enables the military authorities to deal with the spreading of false reports in the same way as they can now deal with a communication of information to the enemy. It enables the Admiralty or Army Council to apply to training camps certain provisions which apply now only to defended harbours, such as the prohibition of signalling and the requirements that lights shall be extinguished after a certain hour and that all persons shall remain indoors after a certain hour at night. It enables the military authorities to exercise their existing powers for the acquisition or use of land or the making of by-laws without the existing restrictions such as consents of local authorities, publication in newspapers, etc., which occupy time and are inapplicable to war conditions.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 266.)

EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) (PROVISION OF MEALS) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Emmett.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (LORD EMMOTT): My Lords, a week or two ago I was asked by Lord Camperdown why there was to be no Education (Provision of Meals) Bill for Scotland, and I explained at the time that Scotland already appeared to possess these powers. It transpires, however, that there is a small gap in the powers which Scotland possesses. Children can be fed under the Scottish Acts whilst they are actually in attendance at school, but there is some doubt as to whether they can properly be fed on days when the school does not meet. This Bill is to repair that deficiency.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Emmett.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 264.)

EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) (WAR SERVICE SUPERANNUATION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Emmott.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD EMMOTT: My Lords, this is a Bill similar to one which has been already passed for England. The object of the Bill is to prevent loss or diminution of benefits under the superannuation scheme to teachers in Scotland who are on service during the present war with the naval or military forces of the Crown or are engaged in any other service of public benefit in connection with the war. I am sure that your Lordships will sympathise with the object of the Bill, and readily agree to pass it through all its stages.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Emmett.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 262.)

HOUSING (No. 2) (EXTENSION TO IRELAND) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, the object of this Bill is to extend to Ireland the provisions of the Housing Act which your Lordships recently passed. Anybody familiar with the conditions in Dublin and elsewhere in regard to housing must be well aware of the necessity which Ireland has of sharing in the provisions of the Act to which your Lordships recently gave your assent. In these circumstances I hope the House will pass this Bill.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 268.)

ISLE OF MAN (WAR LEGISLATION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, a Moratorium was established by Proclamation in the Isle of Man in the same way as in the United Kingdom, but the Postponement of Payments Act did not apply to the Isle of Man. This Bill remedies that defect and enables any of the other emergency measures to be applied to the Isle of Man.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª and passed. (No. 265.)

NAVAL BILLETING, &c., BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, the object of this Bill is to give the naval authorities in Ireland power to billet. The Army has, of course, power to billet in Ireland; the naval authorities, however, have not. This Bill extends to the Navy the powers which the Army have with regard to billeting and the requisitioning of wagons, etc., on emergency.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 270.)

POLICE (SCOTLAND) (LIMIT OF AGE) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Lord Emmott.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
LORD EMMOTT: My Lords, in Scotland at the present time no person over the age of 25 can be appointed a constable. It has been necessary in some of the Scottish Police forces to increase the regular police, with the consent of the Secretray for Scotland; and it has been found also that the existence of a statutory age limit hampers the action of the authorities. In England the age can be altered by regulation made by the Home Secretary, and the object of this Bill is to confer a similar discretion on the Secretary for Scotland. Apart from any other reasons, it is undesirable at the present time that there should be competition between recruiting for the Army and recruiting for the Police service.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Emmott.)
On Question (Standing Order No XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 269.)

SPECIAL CONSTABLES BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question, Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, special constables are usually appointed under the Special Constables Act, 1831, which for present purposes is somewhat out-of-date. It is very desirable that special constables should be organised in close connection with the Police forces and should be under the same control. Under the Bill this will be done by Order in Council, and, where necessary, the provisions of the existing Police Acts will be applied to special constables. In particular the provisions of the Police Acts with regard to allowances to constables injured on duty and to the dependants of constables killed on duty will be applied to special constables, subject to any necessary modifications. Under the existing law, as governed by the Special Constables Act, 1831, special constables can be appointed only in view of actual or apprehended tumult; riot, or felony. It is very desirable that under present conditions there should be power to appoint special constables for the purpose of strengthening the Police forces when there is no immediate apprehension of riot, etc. The Bill enables this to be done, and any appointments already made without sufficient authority are validated.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 260.)

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS (WAR SERVICE SUPERANNUATION) BILL.
Brought from the Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 1ª.—(Earl Beauchamp.)
On Question; Bill read 1ª, and to be printed.
THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (EARL BEAUCHAMP): My Lords, this is a Bill to enable certificated teachers to reckon service in connection with the
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present war as recorded service for the purpose of the Acts relating to elementary school teachers' superannuation. Your Lordships have already passed a similar measure applying to Scotland; this Bill is intended to apply to England only. In these circumstances it is unnecessary for me to say anything more, except to assure the noble Earl below the Gangway (Lord Camper-down) that although, unfortunately, it was not possible to have this Bill circulated, copies of it have been lying on the Table of the House during the sittings of yesterday and to-day.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Earl Beauchamp.)
On Question (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended), Bill read 2ª: Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 261.)
BLYTH HALL (TRANSFER) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL. (No. 271.)
COATBRIDGE DRAINAGE AND BURGH EXTENSION CRUDER CONFIRMATION BILL (No. 272.)
DUMBARTON BURGH (WATER, &c.) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL. (No. 273.)
NORTH BRITISH RAILWAY (INVERGARRY AND FORT AUGUSTUS RAILWAY VESTING) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL. (No. 274.)
Brought from the Commons; read 1ª; to be printed; and (pursuant to the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899), deemed to have een read 2ª (The Lord Emmott), and reported from the Committee: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bills read 3ª, and passed.

HIS MAJESTY'S FORCES AND DEATH DUTIES.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: My Lords, the noble Marquess who leads the House will recollect that he was good enough to say that he would to-day answer the Question which I asked yesterday—namely, whether, in the case of officers and men of the Navy and Army who may lose their lives during the present war on active service, their property will be charged with Death Duties.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, I am able to give the noble Earl in general terms the information for which he asked. He will remember that, as the law now stands, the estates of deceased officers or soldiers killed in action or dying in the campaign can be relieved of payment of all duties provided that the estate does not exceed the sum of £5,000. That is the limitation which was fixed in 1900, and is still operative. But it was felt that something further ought to be done in order that nobody might entertain the thoroughly unpalatable idea that the Revenue was profiting by the deaths of those who lost their lives in the service of the country. The proposition, therefore, which the Chancellor of the Exchequer makes is this, that in lieu of calculating the duty on an estate of any value above £5,000 upon the total capital value, the calculation should be made on the value discounted, according to the three per cent. actuarial tables, by the expectation of life which would, according to his age, have been held by the deceased officer. The House will see, therefore, that the younger the man is who is killed or who dies, the larger the proportion which his estate escapes in the calculation of the duty. Where a man is far advanced in life, he would pay a larger proportion. This applies only to the estate as inherited by the wife or passing by lineal descent. But the House will remember that there is a provision in the Finance Act of this year with regard to the exemption attached to rapid successions, which in some other cases would, of course, be operative in saving the estate from the full charge. That is all that I can tell the noble Earl, and I think it answers the Question which he put yesterday.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: I am glad to get the crumb of comfort which the noble Marquess has given me, but I am not quite certain that I thoroughly understand the answer. Say that a man is killed in action when he is 35 years of age, and Death Duty is levied on the estate that he leaves. Am I right in supposing that the amount which would be
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levied would be calculated on the basis of his having died at the ordinary time—say at 60 or 65 years of age—and that the difference would be discounted according to the three per cent. tables?
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: Yes.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: I should have liked the whole better; but I am obliged to the noble Marquess for the concession.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: Taking the average, I understand that it works out at something like a relief of 50 per cent. of the duty all-round, although variously allocated according to the ages of the different officers.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: My Lords, a Royal Commission has been fixed for 2.45 p.m. to-morrow. It is desirable that the House should meet at half-past two, as there will be two or three Bills to be passed through all their stages. One of those Bills deals with the further issue of bank notes. It will not take long to explain, but something ought to be said upon it. I am not likely, however, to be able to made any statement to-morrow with regard to further business, but I hope to be able to do so definitely on Monday.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: Then the noble Marquess proposes that the House should sit next week?
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: On Monday.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: Only on Monday?
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: That is exactly what I am unable to tell the noble Marquess at this moment.
House adjourned at Seven o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Two o'clock.