Lords Sitting of 8 August 1914

WICK HARBOUR ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL.
Read 3ª(according to Order), and passed.

EDUCATION (PROVISION OF MEALS) (IRELAND) BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, the effect of this Bill is to extend to Ireland the Education (Provision of Meals) Act, 1906, with such modifications as Irish conditions require. It enables councils of county boroughs and urban districts in Ireland to take steps for providing meals for school children attending national schools in cases where, through lack of food, the children cannot take advantage of the education provided. This legislation is well known in this country and has worked satisfactorily. As far as Ireland is concerned it is optional, and this is more or less an experimental measure. If your Lordships approve of the principle of the Bill, I shall be glad if you will pass it through all its stages to-day.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3ª, and passed.

INJURIES IN WAR (COMPENSATION) BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD STRACHIE): My Lords, this is a Bill to enable His Majesty, by Order in Council, to set up a scheme making provision for the granting of pensions and other allowances to certain persons if injured whilst employed in connection with warlike operations, and to their dependants, and for purposes connected therewith. I hope, if your Lordships approve of the principle of the Bill, that you will allow me to take it through all its stages to-day.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3ª, and passed.

LABOURERS (IRELAND) BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
LORD WIMBORNE: My Lords, the amount of the advances that may be made by the Land Commission for the building of labourers' cottages in Ireland is at present limited to £5,250,000. Forty thousand cottages have been built, and 6,000 more cottages are required. It is proposed by this Bill to increase the £5,250,000 by another £1,000,000 to enable this work to be carried out. The cottages are badly needed in some districts in Ireland, and the good results which have followed the building of the 40,000 that now exist are well known to your Lordships. I ask you to give this Bill a Second Reading and allow me to carry it through its other stages to-day.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Wimborne.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3ª, and passed.

HOUSING BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Beading read.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (LORD LUCAS): My Lords, as my noble friend the Leader of the House told your Lordships last night, this is the first of two Bills dealing with housing. This Bill is very restricted in its scope. It deals only with housing at Rosyth. Your Lordships are aware of the conditions that have arisen there. This Bill is to enable us to take steps with regard to the provision of houses. It is urgent that the Bill should be passed through all its stages to-day, because I have an Amendment to propose, more or less of a drafting character, which will necessitate the Bill going back to the House of Commons.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Lucas.)
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: The Bill is not confined to Rosyth, is it?
LORD LUCAS: Not absolutely; but it is especially intended for Rosyth.
THE EARL OF SELBORNE: But it would apply to similar cases?
LORD LUCAS: Yes; it will apply to similar cases if they arise.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: I see that the noble Lord has an Amendment on the Paper which would enlarge the provisions of the Bill. As the Bill stands it is restricted to Government works, and that, I presume, would be limited to Rosyth. Can the noble Lord tell us what the effect will be if the Amendment which he has on the Paper is accepted? He described it just now as a drafting Amendment, but I think it is more than that.
LORD LUCAS: The Amendment is intended to meet the case of all people who are in the employment of Government.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: Not only on Government works?
LORD LUCAS: That is so.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: That is an important difference.
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3ª.
Clause 1:
Powers of the Local Government Board and commissioners of Works for the purpose of housing persons employed by Government departments.
1.—(1) The Local Government Board shall have power, with the approval of the Treasury, to make arrangements with any authorised society within the meaning of this Act for the purpose of the provision, maintenance, and management of dwellings and gardens and other works or buildings for or for the convenience of persons employed by or on behalf of Government departments on Government works, where sufficient dwelling accommodation is not available for those persons, and the Commissioners of Works shall have power for the same purpose, with the consent of the Treasury, given after consultation with the Local Government Board, to acquire and dispose of land and buildings, and to build dwellings, and do all other things which appear to them necessary or desirable for effecting that purpose.
(2) The Local Government Board may, with the approval of the Treasury, assist any authorised society with whom arrangements are made under this Act on such conditions as they think fit by becoming holders of the share or loan capital thereof or making loans thereto or otherwise as they think fit.
Where the Local Government Board make arrangements under this Act with any authorised society in connexion with the provision or maintenance of dwellings within any borough, the council of the borough shall have the like power, with the approval of the Local Government Board, of assisting the society as the Local Government Board have under this Act with the approval of the Treasury.
Any expenses incurred by the council under this provision shall he defrayed in the same manner as expenses of the council under Part III of the Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1890; and the council shall have the like power to borrow for the purposes of this provision as they have for the purposes of that Part of that Act.
LORD LUCAS LORD LUCAS moved to omit, from the middle of subsection (1), the words "on Government works."
Amendment moved—
Page 1, line 11, leave out ("on Government works").—(Lord Lucas.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Bill passed and returned to the Commons.

POLICE RESERVISTS ALLOWANCES BILL.
[SECOND READING]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
VISCOUNT ALLENDALE: My Lords, this is an emergency Bill, the object of which is to enable the Police authorities to maintain the wives and families of Police reservists while on active service. I may say that an exactly similar Bill was passed during the South African War. If your Lordships approve the principle of the Bill, I will ask you to be good enough to pass it through all its stages to-day.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Viscount Allendale.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill lead 3ª, and passed.

PUBLIC WORKS LOANS BILL.
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
LORD STRACHIE: My Lords, this is a Bill which comes before your Lordships' House every year, dealing with the granting of money for the purpose of certain Local Loans out of the Local Loans Fund, and for other purposes relating to Local Loans.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2ª.—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª.
Committee negatived: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 3ª, and passed.

THE EXPORT OF SALT.
THE EARL OF DERBY: My Lords, I wish to ask the noble Earl who represents the Board of Trade a Question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether he will take into consideration, and if possible stop, the action of the Customs Department in preventing the export of salt. I have had representations from Liverpool which make it quite clear that the action of the Customs Department is unnecessary. As a matter of fact, Germany manufactures in excess and exports salt, so that there is no necessity for her to import it; and by the stopping of the export of salt from this country a great number of men would be thrown out of employment. I hope, therefore, that the Board of Trade will consider whether it is not possible to rescind the order prohibiting the exportation of salt.
THE EARL OF GRANARD: My Lords, I will take steps at Once to lay before my right hon. friend the President of the Board of Trade the point raised by the noble Earl. The matter appears to be a serious one and o require immediate attention, and if the noble Earl will give me the papers connected with it I will communicate with the President of the Board of Trade and let him know the result as soon as possible.

DEFENCE OF THE REALM BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1ª, and to be printed: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2ª (The Lord Chancellor): Committee negatived: Bill read 3ª, and passed. (No. 253.)
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 23) BILL.
Message from the Commons that they concur in the Resolution of this House, communicated to them on Thursday last on the subject of the Local Government Provisional Order (No. 23) Bill.

THE TAKING OF FARMERS' HORSES.
THE EARL OF DERBY: I rise to ask the noble Lord the President of the Board of Agriculture a Question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether instructions can be sent to the remount officers in country districts not to take, unless it is absolutely necessary, farmers' horses and the horses of millers and bakers. There is no doubt whatever that in some districts farmers' horses are being taken. It is most important that farmers should be allowed to retain their agricultural horses at all events until they have got in this year's harvest and prepared the ground for next year's.
LORD LUCAS: My Lords, the general instructions under which the officers who are at present acquiring horses for the War Office are acting are that they should have special regard to the requirements of farmers. The number of heavy horses of the cart-horse type which the Army want is comparatively small, so that there ought not to have arisen any case where an undue number was requisitioned from any particular farmer. With regard to the case of tradesmen or firms dealing in articles that are of the utmost importance to the civilian community, among which one includes food stuffs generally, petrol, medicine, and such things, instructions have been sent out by the War Office to their remount officers that they should not take any lorries or motor vehicles from these tradesmen without special reference to the War Office. I do not speak with certainty, but I think the same instructions are going to apply with regard to taking horses from firms dealing in those commodities. If any case of individual hardship arises, the right person to make complaint to is the local remount officer; but in cases of a more widespread character in which a whole district is involved, the best course would be to make the complaint to the War Office.
THE EARL OF DERBY: I know of cases where certain farmers have had all their horses taken, whilst a few miles off farmers have not had any taken. The remount officer is told to collect a quota, and when he has got the quota he stops. Perhaps the fact of calling public attention to the matter will have a good result.
LORD LUCAS: We have received at the Board of Agriculture one or two complaints of this sort, and in all cases I have instructed my officers to investigate and try as far as possible, without of course in any way interfering with mobilisation, to make arrangements to meet the requirements of the farmers concerned.
THE EARL OF DERBY: I am much obliged to the noble Lord.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE): Your Lordships will remember that yesterday I stated that I should be in a position on Monday to speak on the question of the rising of the House. However, I am able to do so somewhat sooner than I anticipated; and, as noble Lords may have gathered from what was said at a later hour in the House of Commons yesterday, I shall on Monday propose an adjournment of this House for a fortnight, which, of course, will be without prejudice of any kind to any future Parliamentary or sessional arrangements. There will simply be an adjournment for a fortnight. On that a question arises. I should hope that there would be no need for the House to meet in the interval, but as matters now stand, even if it was so desired, it would not be possible to do so without violating in a marked manner all our rules and traditions. For example, it was extremely urgent, in connection with the Bill relating to bills of exchange, that we should meet at short notice on a particular day. It happened on the Monday—August 3—that the House was sitting judicially, and my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor was able to announce at that sitting that the House would meet for public business in the afternoon. But the House, during an adjournment, would not be sitting judicially, and it would be impossible for him to take that step. I therefore propose on Monday to move the
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following Sessional Order, which will be placed on the Paper for that day—
"That whenever during the present session of Parliament the House stands adjourned for more than two days, and it appears to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor that the public interest requires that the House should meet at any earlier time during such adjournment, the Lord Chancellor may give notice to the Peers that he is so satisfied, and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as if it had been duly adjourned to that time."
I think the House will agree that a provision of that kind cannot possibly be abused, whilst it would certainly be to the general convenience and tend to keep our proceedings on those orderly lines on which we always desire them to work.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, the case which the noble Marquess made just now in favour of the proposed new Sessional Order seemed to me to be on the whole a strong one, and. I gather that it is intended that there will be limiting words which will make it applicable only to the present session. At this moment we are passing through a period of emergency, and it would be most inconvenient that there should be no power of reassembling the House if urgent matters required it to be reassembled. But that would be a very different thing from making this a part of the permanent machinery of the House. I am therefore glad to learn from the noble Marquess that the Order is proposed for this session and for this session only.
THE MARQUESS OF CREWE: That certainly is so; and I agree with the noble Marquess that the notion of making this a part of our permanent procedure would demand a very great deal of consideration.
House adjourned during pleasure.
House resumed.

ROYAL COMMISSION.
The following Bill received the Royal Assent—
Defence of the Realm.
House adjourned at a quarter before One o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter past Four o'clock.