SECOND READING. (Hansard, 22 April 1914)

§ VISCOUNT ST. ALDWYN
My Lords, it will be only necessary for me to detain your Lordships for a few minutes in asking your acceptance of the Second Reading of this Bill. It is well known to your Lordships that there are not a few cases in the Church of England in which, owing to the growth of population in certain parts of the country and also, I think, to a change in the view as to the duties required from a Bishop, the population of certain dioceses has become far beyond the capacity of any man to work them adequately. That was attempted to be remedied to some extent by a Bill which was passed on the very last day of last session, constituting three new dioceses in the East of England and Sheffield; but there still remains the fact that you cannot constitute a new bishopric in the Church of England or even alter the boundaries of an existing bishopric except by the process of carrying a Bill through both Houses of Parliament, which is a very difficult process indeed in these days and has proved to be so for many years past.
The proposals of my Bill are simply to substitute an Order in Council for the procedure by Bill, the Order in Council being laid before both Houses of Parliament and being nugatory if it is objected to by either House. There are safeguards in the Bill for requiring proof to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners that a sufficient sum has been obtained for the endowment of the new dioceses. It will not at all come out of the common fund of the Ecclesiastical Commission. 1019 The interests of patrons are safeguarded in the case of an annexation of a living to a deanery, as the consent of the patron and of the Bishop of the diocese is required before any such Order in Council shall be made. There is another provision in the Bill by which it is possible for the Ecclesiastical Commissioners to consider the question of the pension to be granted on the retirement of a Bishop, safeguarding the rights of existing Bishops. It would apply, of course, mainly to these new sees. The incomes would be less than in the case of the old existing sees, and therefore the pensions could not be on the scale now provided by law. Your Lordships have assented on three or four previous occasions to this Bill, and I hope that what I have said will be sufficient to induce you to give it a Second Reading on this occasion.

§ THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD STRACHIE):
My Lords, on behalf of the Government I should like to say at once that they give this Bill general approval. Of course, the right is reserved to deal with any details that may require to be dealt with afterwards; but I think that will be hardly likely considering that the measure has gone through on other occasions without amendment. It is obvious that it would be of general advantage to have a Bill of this sort for facilitating the creation of new bishoprics and altering the boundaries of dioceses in this way, instead of having to deal with each case separately. As the noble Viscount has pointed out, there are ample safeguards. These Orders in Council cannot be made in a reckless manner and come into effect at once; it is in the power of either House of Parliament to stop any Order in Council from coming into force. When it is necessary for new bishoprics to be created owing to the fact that the Bishops have of late years taken a great deal more interest in the administration of their dioceses to the great advantage of the Church, and when, owing to the centres of population having altered or increased very largely, it is necessary to divide up a particular diocese, it seems to me desirable to be able to deal with the situation by means of an Order in Council rather than by a Bill which has to pass through both Houses. Therefore on behalf of the Government I am glad to be able to welcome this Bill, and I hope it may have a smooth passage through this House.

THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY
My Lords, I should like in a single sentence to express my satisfaction at having heard from the noble Lord who represents His Majesty's Government their intention to give such favourable consideration as they can to the Bill. I quite understand that no pledge of any kind is given, but I recognise, on the other hand, that the Government are giving a friendly reception to the Bill. I am sure the hope expressed by the noble Lord that the Bill will become law is shared by all well-wishers of the Church of England.