Lords Sitting of 16 June 1913

EARL OF BELMORE.
Ordered, That the Report of the Lord Chancellor of the United Kingdom, made to the House of Lords on Friday last, that the right of the Earl of Belmore to vote at the elections of Representative Peers for Ireland has been established to his satisfaction be sent to the Clerk of the Crown in Ireland, together with a certificate stating that such report has been made, and that the House has ordered it to be sent to the said Clerk of the Crown in Ireland.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:

Watney, Combe, Reid and Company. [H.L.]

Tottenham and Edmonton Gas.

And also the Certificates that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:

Electric Lighting Provisional Orders (No. 6). [H.L.]

Electric Lighting Provisional Order (No. 7). [H.L.]

Local Government Provisional Order (Gas).

Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 7).

Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 1).

The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

CAROLIN'S DIVORCE BILL. [H.L.]
Witness ordered to attend at adjourned proceedings on Second Reading.

GAS AND WATER ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 1) BILL. [H.L.]
(UNOPPOSED ORDERS.)
Committee to meet To-morrow.
EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (LONDON No. 1) BILL. [H.L.]
EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (LONDON No. 3) BILL. [H.L.]
GAS AND WATER ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 1) BILL. [H.L.]
(Bagnalstown Gas Order.)
Report from the Committee of Selection That the Viscount Gough be proposed to the House as a Member of the Select Committee on the said Bills in the place of the Lord Harlech; read, and agreed to.

MYNYDDISLWYN URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
Reported, with Amendments.
EDINBURGH CORPORATION BILL. [H.L.]
Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
METROPOLITAN ELECTRIC TRAMWAYS (RAILLESS TRACTION) BILL.
Read 2a, and committed: The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
YORK CORPORATION BILL.
Read 2a and committed.

TOTTENHAM AND EDMONTON GAS BILL.
Read 2a.
TYNEMOUTH GAS BILL. [H.L.]
RICHMOND (SURREY) ELECTRICITY SUPPLY BILL. [H.L.]
MANCHESTER SHIP CANAL BILL. [H.L.]
NORTH BRITISH RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
READING CORPORATION BILL. [H.L.]
LONDON AND SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
BROADSTAIRS AND ST. PETER'S URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL. [H.L.]
HUDDERSFIELD CORPORATION BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.

CLEVELAND AND DURHAM COUNTY ELECTRIC POWER BILL.
Read 3a, and passed.
NORTHERN COUNTIES ELECTRICITY SUPPLY BILL.
Read 3a, with the Amendment, and passed, and returned to the Commons.

METROPOLITAN ELECTRIC TRAMWAYS (RAILLESS TRACTION) BILL.
Report from the Committee of Selection, that the Five Lords appointed a Select Committee on the Alexandra Park and Palace Bill [H.L.] do form the Select Committee for the consideration of the Metropolitan Electric Tramways (Railless Traction) Bill; read, and agreed to: All petitions referred to the Committee, with leave to the petitioners praying to be heard by counsel against the Bill to be heard as desired, as also counsel for the Bill.
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (IRELAND) PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 2) BILL. (No. 64.)
LOCAL GOVERNMENT PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 8) BILL. (No. 65.)
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.
GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY BILL.
LANCASHIRE AND YORKSHIRE RAILWAY BILL.
NOTTINGHAM CORPORATION BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.
GAS ORDERS CONFIRMATION BILL. [H.L.]
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL. [H.L.]
ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 4) BILL. [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bills to be read 3a on Monday next.
EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (LONDON No. 4) BILL. [H.L.]
EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDERS CONFIRIFLATION (CARDIGAN, &c.) BILL. [H.L.]
Read 3a (according to order), and passed, and sent to the Commons.

UNDERGROUND WORKROOMS BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly.
[The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.]
Clause 1:
Prohibition against use of underground workrooms unless certified.
1.—(1) As from the appointed day no underground room in a factory, workshop, or workplace shall be used for the purpose of any of the processes or occupations specified in the Schedule to this Act unless duly certified by the district council to be suitable for the process or occupation named in the certificate, and unless the conditions contained in the certificate are complied with.
(2) An underground room shall not be certified by the district council as suitable unless the council are satisfied that the regulations under this Act which apply to such room are complied with, and where any such regulations prescribe the manner in which means for securing the maintenance of reasonable temperature, proper lighting and ventilation, freedom from damp, dust, effluvia, and exhalations, and the carrying off of dust and fumes, and otherwise for securing the health of persons employed in such room are to to be maintained and used the certificate shall be made conditional on the maintenance and use of such moans in accordance with the manner so prescribed.
(3) For the purpose of this Act the appointed day means the first day of January nineteen hundred and fifteen or such later date, not being later than the first day of January nineteen hundred and sixteen, as the Secretary of State may by order appoint, and different dates may be appointed for different districts.
THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD STRACHIE)THE PAYMASTER-GENERAL (LORD STRACHIE) moved, after the words "specified in" in subsection (1), to insert "Part I and Part II of." The noble Lord said: This is the first of the series of Amendments that I foreshadowed on the Second Reading, the object of which is to take workplaces entirely out of the control of the Home Office. Your Lordships will see that by the last Amendment standing in my name on the Paper the Schedule is divided into two Parts, and that typewriting and other clerical work and the preparation of food for consumption in restaurants and other establishments for the sale of refreshments are made to con-

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stitute Part II. As regards the other part of the Bill, by my Amendments we give entire discretionary power to the district council to act until the Home Office have made Regulations. As I pointed out on the Second Reading, unless this is done the Bill would have no effect at all if the Home Office failed to make Regulations. We propose to make Amendments in this respect because we recognise that there is a great deal of good in the Bill subject to these changes in regard to detail, and we are anxious that it should come into force at the earliest possible moment. I heard this morning from the Home Office that it is the noble Marquess's intention to accept the Amendments standing in my name on the Paper. It will not be necessary, therefore, for me to trouble your Lordships by going into them when moving them unless any noble Lord requires an explanation of any particular Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Clause 1, page 1, line 7, after ("in") insert ("Part I and Part II of").—(Lord Strachie.)
THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: The noble Lord has informed your Lordships correctly that I do not propose to contest the Amendments which the Home Office are suggesting, but I should like to say that although I am not going to resist them I cannot in any way accept responsibility for them because I do not approve of them. Perhaps your Lordships will allow me to say in a sentence or two what the general effect of the noble Lord's Amendments is. It is this. The Home Office wish to be relieved of any responsibility for workplaces as distinguished from factories and workshops, and therefore as soon as the noble Lord's Amendments are inserted the Home Office will have nothing to do with the changes in the law so far as regards workplaces. They have, of course, certain powers already under the Public Health Act, and those they will retain; but any increased powers the Home Office wish to confine to factories and workshops. It follows perfectly logically that as the Home Office do not propose to make any Regulations affecting workplaces so the Home Office inspectors will have no locus standi in inspecting workplaces as distinguished from factories and workshops, and they will not in any way interfere with them except in so far as I believe there is certain power under the Public Health Act to use inspectors.
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I am afraid the effect of this change in the Bill is necessarily to limit its provisions, and that may be seen in certain other Amendments standing in the name of my noble friend. For example, as workplaces, in so far as this Bill deals with the subject, are to be a matter which concerns the local authority and the local authority alone, any power of extending the Bill beyond the occupations at present detailed in the Schedule has to be abandoned so far as regards workplaces. You can, of course, trust the Home Office to extend the Schedule in respect of workshops and factories which they themselves are going to control, but Parliament would be unwilling to have an elastic Schedule where the authority is to be the local authority by itself. Consequently my Schedule is to be divided into two Parts. That Part which deals with workshops and factories remains elastic, but the Part which deals with workplaces becomes rigid and cannot be hereafter extended by administrative Order or arrangement. That is one of the consequences of striking out workplaces from the purview of the Home Office.
There is another consequence. I was very anxious, as I said in moving the Second Reading of this Bill, that a distinction should be drawn between existing premises and future ones, because I foresaw the difficulty in the case of the former in applying anything like a drastic change. That was provided for in fairly wide terms in the Bill as I introduced it. But now that workplaces are to be distinguished from factories and workshops this elastic provision has had to be seriously curtailed. I do not say that the Government have abandoned altogether the distinction between existing and future premises, but they have used much more rigid words where the elasticity is to be placed in the hands of the local authority as compared with the elasticity placed in the hands of the Home Office. No doubt they do not trust the local authority as much as they trust themselves, and that is not an unreasonable position for them to take. All these consequences really flow from the one considerable change which takes workplaces out of the purview of the Home Office.
As I have already said, I do not propose to resist the Amendments standing in the name of the noble Lord. I take that course for two reasons. In the first place, it is a

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serious matter for any one in the position of a private Peer to resist the considered judgment of the Department of State Whose business it will be to carry out this Bill. when it passes into law; and, in the second place, unless I have the benevolent sanction of the Government to the Bill the last chance of passing it through another place must, of course, be abandoned. For those cogent reasons your Lordships will no doubt agree that I am justified in taking the rather pusillanimous course which I propose to adopt.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE formally moved to omit from subsection (2) the words "regulations under this Act which apply to such room are complied with, and where any such regulations prescribe the manner in which means for securing the maintenance of reasonable temperature, proper lighting and ventilation, freedom from damp, dust, effluvia, and exhalations, and the carrying off of dust and fumes, and otherwise for securing the health of persons employed in such room are to be maintained and used the certificate shall be made conditional on the maintenance and use of such means in accordance with the manner so prescribed," and to insert the words in his Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Clause 1, page 1, line 13, leave out from the second ("the") to the end of the subsection and insert ("room is suitable in respect of structure, and the provision of means for securing the maintenance of reasonable temperature, proper lighting and ventilation, freedom from damp, dust, effluvia and exhalations, and the carrying off of dust and fumes, and otherwise for securing the health of persons employed therein, and the certificate shall specify the means so provided, and shall be made conditional on the means so provided being maintained and properly used.
"Provided that, subject to the regulations (if any) made in pursuance of this Act, the district council may, in the case of rooms which at the date of the passing of this Act were being used for the purpose of any such processes or occupations as aforesaid, relax any requirements which would involve structural alterations where such structural alterations would be impracticable, but where any requirements are so relaxed the certificate issued shall continue in force only so long as the person who was the occupier at the passing of this Act continues in occupation."—(Lord strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 1, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 2 agreed to.
Clause 3:
Withdrawal of certificate.
3. A court of summary jurisdiction may on complaint, in the case of a factory by an inspector, and in any other case by the district council, and en being satisfied that as regards any underground room in respect of which a certificate has been granted the conditions contained in the certificate are not complied with, withdraw the certificate.
Amendment moved—
Page 2, line 9, after ("inspector") insert ("of factories").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.
Clauses 4 to 6 agreed to.
Clause 7:
Power of inspector to act in lieu of district council.
7.—(1) Where in the case of a workshop it appears to an inspector under the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, in the case of a workplace on complaint in writing by any person who appears to the Secretary of State to be interested the Secretary of State is satisfied by the report of an inspector of factories that a district council have failed to enforce the provisions of this Act with respect to any underground room, the inspector shall give notice in writing to the district council, and it shall be the duty of the district council to make such inquiry and take such action thereon as seems to that council proper for enforcing the law, and to inform the inspector of the proceedings taken in consequence of the notice.
(2) Where a notice is given by an inspector under this section to a district council and proceedings are not taken within one month by the district council for enforcing the provisions of this Act with respect to the workshop or workplace to which the notice relates, the inspector may take the like proceedings for enforcing this Act as that council might have taken, and he shall be entitled to recover from the district council all such expenses in and about the proceedings as the inspector incurs, and as are not recovered from any person, and have not been incurred in any unsuccessful proceedings.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved to omit from subsection (1) the words "Where in the case of a workshop it appears to an inspector under the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, in the case of a workplace on complaint in writing by any person who appears to the Secretary of State to be interested the Secretary of State is satisfied by the report of an inspector of factories that a district council have failed to enforce the provisions of this Act with respect to any underground room," and to insert the words in his Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 3, leave out from the beginning of the clause to ("the") in line 13, and insert ("Where it appears to an inspector under the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901, that a district council have failed to enforce the provisions of this Act with respect to any underground room in a workshop").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 22, leave out ("or workplace").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 8:
Regulations.
8.—(1) The Secretary of State may by order make regulations as to the structure of underground rooms to which this Act applies, and the provision and use as regards such rooms of means for securing the maintenance of reasonable temperature, proper lighting and ventilation, freedom from damp, dust, effluvia, and exhalations, and the carrying off of dust and fumes, and otherwise for securing the health of persons employed in such rooms; and different regulations may be made as respects different processes and different occupations, or as respects rooms which are used for the purposes of any of such processes or occupations at the time when the order comes into effect, and rooms which are not so used.
(2) The Secretary of State may by order extend the provisions of this Act to processes and occupations other than those specified in the schedule to this Act, and thereupon this Act shall, subject to the provisions of the order, apply as if that schedule included the processes and occupations specified in the order.
(3) Sections eighty, eighty-one, and eighty-four of the Factory and Workshop Act, 1901 (relating to the procedure for making regulations as to dangerous trades), shall apply to the making of orders under this section.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved, after the word "applies" in subsection (1), to insert "in factories and workshops."
Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 31, after ("applies") insert ("in factories and workshops").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved to add at the end of subsection (1) the words in his Amendment.
Amendment moved—
Page 3, line 40, after ("used") insert ("Where any such regulations have been made, an underground room to which the regulations apply shall not be certified to be suitable in respect of any of the matters dealt with in the regulations unless
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it complies with those regulations and where any such regulations prescribe the manner in which any such means as aforesaid are to be used, the certificate shall be made conditional on the use of such means in accordance with the manner so prescribed.
"Where any such regulations have been made, any certificate granted under this Act in respect of any underground room to which the regulations apply shall cease to be in force as from the date when the regulations conic into operation; but if the room complies with the regulations a new certificate shall forthwith be granted by the district council.")—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved to amend subsection (2), after the word "occupations" where it first occurred, by adding "carried on in factories and workshops."
Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 2, after ("occupations") insert ("carried on in factories and workshops").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved to insert "Part I of" after the words "specified in" in subsection (2), and also after the words "apply as if."
Amendments moved—
Page 4, line 3, after ("in") insert ("Part I of")
Page4 line 4, after ("if") insert ("Part I of").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendments agreed to.
Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.
Clause 9:
Exceptions.
9. This Act shall not apply to any underground room used only for the purpose of storage or any other purpose incidental to the processes and occupations specified in the schedule to this Act which may be excepted by an order made by the Secretary of State, nor to any domestic factory or domestic workshop, nor to any workplace which if it were a workshop would be a domestic workshop.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved, after the words "specified in," to insert "Part, I of."
Amendment moved—
Page 4, line 13, after ("in") insert ("Part I of").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.
Remaining clauses agreed to.
Schedule:

The making, cleaning, washing, altering, ornamenting, finishing, and repairing of wearing apparel;

Wig making and the processes of preparing hair for human wear or adornment;

Lace or embroidery making;

Upholstery and carpet making;

Watch and clock making and repairing;

Jewellery work;

Laundry work;

and other occupations incidental to any of the foregoing.

Typewriting and other clerical work;

Preparation of food for consumption in restaurants and other establishments for the sale of refreshments.
LORD STRACHIE LORD STRACHIE moved to insert "Part I" at the top of the Schedule, and to insert "Part II" after the words "and other occupations incidental to any of the foregoing."
Amendment moved—
Schedule, line 1, after ("Schedule") insert ("Part I") and after line 11 insert ("Part II").—(Lord Strachie.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Schedule, as amended, agreed to.
The Report of Amendments to be received on Monday next, and Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 67.)

DOONER'S DIVORCE BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.
Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.
House in Committee accordingly.
[The EARL OF DONOUGUMORE in the Chair.]
Clauses 1 to 4 agreed to.
Clause 5.
William Dundas Dooner prohibited from intermarrying with offending party.
5. It shall not be lawful for the said William Dundas Dooner to intermarry with any offending party (at present unknown) with whom he has committed adultery as alleged in the Preamble to this Act.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR: In accordance with the usual practice I move to omit this clause.
Amendment moved—
"Leave out Clause 5."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
The Report of Amendment to be received on Monday next.

MILITARY MANŒUVRES, 1913.
Moved, That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty, praying His Majesty to make an Order-in-Council under the Military Manœuvres Acts, 1897 and 1911, a draft of which was presented to this House on the 28th March last (The Lord Lucas); agreed to, and ordered accordingly:
The said Address to be presented to His Majesty by the Lords with White Staves.

COMPULSORY TAKING OF LAND (INSANITARY PROPERTY).
Report from the Select Committee (with the Proceedings of the Committee) made, and to be printed. Minutes of Evidence and Appendices: Laid upon the Table, and to be delivered out. (No. 66.)

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (THE MARQUESS OF CREWE): My Lords, I understand that there is no business on the Paper for the next few days, and with the concurrence of your Lordships I beg to move that, the House do adjourn, except for Judicial and Private Bill business, until Monday, the 23rd instant.
Moved accordingly, and, on Question, Motion agreed to.
House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, till To-morrow, halt-past Ten o'clock.