§ *LORD AMPTHILL rose to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies whether His Majesty's Government have received any official information which confirms the reports published in the Press to the effect that the visit of the Honourable Mr. G. K. Gokhale to South Africa was successful in its object and has given good grounds for expecting an early and satisfactory settlement of the British Indian question; and to move for Papers.
§ The noble Lord said: My Lords, I am indeed sorry to detain your Lordships at this late hour, but the matter on which I wish to ask His Majesty's Government for information is not unimportant and I must beg to be allowed to say a few words by way of explanation. The object of my Question is not to criticise but to obtain information. Those on whose behalf I am speaking have not lost their interest in this subject, to which more than once I have sought the attention of the House, and none of the preoccupations and distraction, of present day affairs Mill abate their deep concern for the solution of this problem with regard to British subjects in South Africa. I wish to give the Government an opportunity of proving that, in spite of the many pressing concerns with which they are at present obliged to deal, they are watching the situation and are still mindful that this is a question not only of rendering justice to our fellow-subjects in South Africa but one vitally affecting the position of India in the Empire. It is an Imperial question of the first magnitude, for nobody can question that well-founded discontent in India must effect the stability of British rule, and that serious trouble in India must mean trouble to the Empire as well.
§ There has been discontent in India, very serious discontent, in regard to this question, and it came to a climax on the occasion of the Indian National Congress of 1911. It was on that occasion that Mr. Gokhale, a member of the Viceroy's Council and perhaps the best known and most public spirited public man in India, undertook the mission to South Africa. In doing, that he rendered a red service to the Empire, a service conspicuous not only for the public spirit which formed its motive but also for the great success by which it was attended. I think I am right in saying that His Majesty's, Government approved of the mission of Mr. 1106 Gokhale and did something to encourage it, and in that belief I venture to assume that they must be concerned to see that the effect of that mission has not been lost. Demonstrations of good feeling, however striking and enthusiastic they may be, are of no avail unless they are followed, and followed speedily, by appropriate action. Therefore what I want to know is, What His Majesty's Government have been doing during the past two months to acknowledge and encourage and to take advantage of that spirit of reasonableness and conciliation and goodwill which arose from Mr. Gokhale's visit to South Africa, a tour which was really remarkable in many ways. Mr. Gokhale was received and offered hospitality by the Union Government, by mayors and municipal authorities of all the towns which he visited and by the European community in every centre. When you reflect that this was after five years of controversy, attended by bitter prejudice and passion, it was really a very remarkable thing, and I do not think it is too much to say that it was due in a very great measure to the remarkable qualities of Mr. Gokhale himself—to the very sensible view which he brought to bear on the situation, to his tact, and to his undoubted personal charm.
§ My Lords, the results of that visit have aroused in all those who are interesting themselves closely in this question hopes that we are at last, after many years of weary waiting and anxiety, approaching a fair solution. But meanwhile I cannot disguise from your Lordships that delay is doing some harm. There is cause for anxiety. The noble Lord the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies knows to what I am referring, for it is only within the past fortnight that I have brought to his notice recent cases in which the action of officials and municipal authorities has not corresponded with the attitude of the Government and the opinion of what I may call the best men in South Africa. I venture to think prompt action is needed on the part of the State in order to inculcate and encourage in the whole community of South Africa that spirit of fair play which we claim to be essentially British, and which, therefore, ought to animate the whole of the British Empire. I beg to move.
§ Moved, That an humble Address be presented to His Majesty for Papers relating to the visit of the Honourable Mr. G. K. Gokhale to South Africa.—(Lord Ampthill.)
1107§ LORD EMMOTTMy Lords, I am sure the noble Lord will pardon me if, on account of the lateness of the hour, I make my reply as brief as possible, but I will give him such information as I have. There is one caveat which I think I must enter. The noble Lord spoke of encouragement to Mr. Gokhale to go to South Africa. It is possible, but I am not sure myself what, if any, encouragement was given to him. I make that statement only because I do not desire any misunderstanding on the matter. Mr. Gokhale's visit was unofficial. He was received, I am glad to say, by the Prime Minister, by the Minister of the Interior, and by the Minister of Finance. To those three Ministers he made informal representations as to the position of Indians in South Africa. He was informed by those Ministers that they would give consideration to the points he raised, and especially to the question of the £3 tax on Indians in Natal who had served their terms of indenture, and also to the question of the Immigration Bill. With regard to the Immigration Bill the noble Lord will remember that in the White Paper, Cd. 6283, laid upon the Table when he last brought the question of Indians in South Africa before your Lordships' House, there was a statement on Page 26 in a telegram from the Governor-General to the Secretary of State that the Ministers—
were most anxious to secure passing of Bill and that, having in view discussing in Parliament during last session when Bill came up for Second Reading, they will take steps to introduce Bill, with certain amendments as outcome of that discussion, at earliest possible date during the course of next session.From the information I have, I understand that the exact form of the Amendments to the Bill is not yet settled but is under consideration; and His Majesty's Government are led to hope that the Bill including those Amendments will be sent home at an early date. I should hesitate to express too confident an opinion about the effect of the visit of Mr. Gokhale. I do not mean by that that I am dissatisfied with its effect; but I cannot express a very confident 1108 opinion because I have not the material to enable me to form one. Speaking for myself, however, I may say that Mr. Gokhale does seem to me to have taken a broad view of the situation, and in his speech on his return to India to have shown that he realised the facts of the case and some of the great difficulties surrounding this question. On the whole, I am inclined to express the opinion that, so far as I can see, Mr. Gokhale's visit to South Africa appears to have been an advantage. I regret that I have no further information to give, and there are no Papers which at present I can lay. I have given the House the whole of the information I possess at the present time.
§ LORD AMPTHILLI just wish to say this in answer to the noble Lord. He seems to be doubtful as to whether I was correct in saying that His Majesty's Government had encouraged the visit. I was relying on remarks made by Mr. Gokhale himself in his speech on his return to India. He gave thanks to Mr. Harcourt and Lord Crewe for having made it possible and encouraged him to go—at least so I read the report in the Press. Of course, my Motion for Papers is withdrawn with your Lordships' permission, but I must say I had hoped for a somewhat less frigid and cautiously official reply. I had hoped that the noble Lord would have been able to give us rather more encouragement to believe that the solution of this problem is really getting nearer on account of what has recently taken place.
§ Motion, by leave, withdrawn.