HL Deb 13 August 1913 vol 14 cc1910-9

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee, read.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE)

My Lords, on the Motion to go into Committee it may be convenient if I state that since the discussion on the English Bill we have had the opportunity of going very carefully into the Amendments on the Paper to this Bill, and I am glad to say that I have reason to think that we can meet the views of noble Lords opposite completely. There are certain drafting Amendments which I propose to move myself, which are either pure drafting or are necessary to bring the Bill into harmony with what your Lordships have decided should be the case in the English Bill. Then there are certain Amendments to be moved by Lord Camper down which we think are improvements in the Bill. There is another Amendment which Lord Salisbury will move which I shall accept, as it will bring this Bill into harmony with what was done in the case of the English Bill.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

The EARL OF DONOUGHMORE in the Chair.

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

The Amendment standing in my name is purely drafting.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 16, leave out from ("Act") to the end of the line and insert ("in accordance with the provisions thereof hereinafter contained").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 3, line 18, after the second ("or") insert ("at the instance of his parent if, though not an idiot or an imbecile, he").—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

I accept this Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

The Amendments standing in my name are merely to bring this Bill into harmony with the English Bill.

Amendments moved—

Page 3, line 19, leave out ("a") and insert ("the")

Page 3, line 27, leave out from ("offence") to ("liable") in line 29 and insert ("punishable in the case of an adult with penal servitude or imprisonment, or who is ordered or found").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 4:

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN

This Amendment is consequential.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 33, after the second ("or") insert ("the parent of a defective who, though not an idiot or an imbecile").—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 4, line 12, after ("by") insert ("the Board or").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 5:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

This is an Amendment to provide for the case of Perth, which has a lunatic department which is virtually a criminal lunatic asylum.

Amendment moved— Page 5, line 32, after ("asylum") insert ("of the criminal lunatic department of a prison").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 5, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 6 agreed to.

Clause 7:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

There are two Amendments to this clause, standing in my name and also in that of the noble Earl, Lord Camperdown. I am in entire agreement with the noble Earl, and I beg to move.

Amendments moved—

Page 7, line 22, after ("relates") insert ("his parents or guardians and")

Page 7, line 23, after ("relates") insert ("or by his parents or guardians").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 7, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 8:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

These are drafting Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 8, line 11, after ("by") insert ("or on behalf of")

Page 8, line 12, leave out ("interested") and insert ("concerned")

Page 8, line 16, leave out ("interested") and insert ("concerned")

Page 8, line 23, after ("to") insert ("the local authority concerned if any and where practicable to the parent or guardian or").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 8, line 24, leave out ("and to the local authority interested").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 8, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 9:

Amendment moved— Page 8, line 27, after ("punishable") insert ("in the case of an adult").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 9, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 10 to 12 agreed to.

Clause 13:

Amendment moved— Page 11, line 25, after ("days") insert ("after receiving the notice").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Amendment moved— Page 12, line 6, leave out ("seven days") and insert ("one month's"), and after ("Board") insert ("and to the parent or guardian of the defective, if known").—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 13, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 14:

Amendments moved—

Page 12,line 16, leave out the second ("or") and insert ("and any charges incidental thereto, including the expenses")

Page 12, line 17, leave out from ("funeral") to ("as") in line 18.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 14, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 15:

Amendments moved—

Page 12, line 35, after ("neglected") insert ("abandoned").

Page 13, line 2, after ("is") insert ("apparently")

Page 13,line 12, alter ("concerned") insert ("but shall, if an order is eventually made, be recoverable from the defective or any person liable to maintain him as if they were part of the expenses of his maintenance").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 15, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 16:

Amendment moved— Page 13, line 23, after ("until") insert ("where practicable").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 16, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 17:

Amendment moved— Page 14, line 25, after ("defective") insert ("and that the institution is one suitable to the case").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 17, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 18 to 25 agreed to.

Clause 26:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

These are all drafting Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 20, line 14, leave out from ("sent") to ("and") in line 15.

Page 20, line 16, after ("institutions") insert ("to the extent hereinafter provided")

Page 20, line 27, leave out ("affect") and insert ("derogate from or diminish the powers of school boards under the Education of Defective Children (Scotland) Act, 1906, as read with the Education (Scotland) Act, 1908, or")

Page 20, line 35, after ("Provided") insert ("also").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 26, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 27 agreed to.

Clause 28:

Amendment moved— Page 22, line 12, leave out ("criminal").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 28, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 29:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

The object of this Amendment is to provide for two institutions which already exist and are licensed under the Lunacy Act and which have to be brought in here to be made available. I move.

Amendment moved—

Page 22, line 33, after ("institution") insert the following subsections: (2) Any institution for the care and training of imbecile children which at the commencement of this Act is licensed under section seven, of the Lunacy (Scotland) Act, 1862, shall without certification become a certified institution for defectives under this Act unless and in so far as upon the application of the managers it may be certified under this Act as a certified house; and any person who immediately before the commencement of this Act is detained in such an institution may after such commencement continue to be detained therein in like manner and subject to the like conditions as prior to such commencement. (3) The managers of an institution (not being a certified institution provided for their district by a district board) shall not be bound to receive any defective whom they have not expressed their willingness to receive"—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 29, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 30 agreed to.

Clause 31:

Amendments moved—

Page 23, line 29, after ("condition") insert ("and otherwise in respect to them").

Page 24, line 15, after ("guardianship") insert ("or otherwise").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 31, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 32 and 33 agreed to.

Clause 34:

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

These are all drafting Amendments.

Amendments moved—

Page 25, line 14, leave out from ("Where") to ("the") in line 15 am insert ("the finding has been in respect of more than one offence")

Page 25, line 24, after ("asylum") insert ("or department, inebriate reformatory")

Page 25, line 30, leave out from the second ("in") to the second ("reformatory") in line 31 and insert ("a")

Page 25, line 32, leave out from ("foregoing") to ("section") in line 33.

Page 25, line 36, leave out ("inebriate reformatory or").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 34, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 35 agreed to.

Clause 36:

Amendment moved— Page 27, line 10, after ("allowances") insert ("and gratuities").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 36, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 37 to 39 agreed to.

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY

I desire to move the insertion of a new clause here which I believe the Government are prepared to accept. The object is to bring the Scottish Bill into conformity with the English Bill.

Amendment moved—

After Clause 39, insert as a new clause: . The nearest adult relative or the guardian of a defective in any institution or under guardianship under this Act shall be entitled to visit the defective at such times, on such conditions, and at such intervals not exceeding six months, as may be prescribed by the Board, unless, in view of his character and antecedents the Board think that his visits would not be in the interests of the defective; provided that nothing herein contained shall be construed as limiting any power to grant further facilities for visits to defectives."—(The Marquess of Salisbury.)

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

I accept the Amendment.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clauses 40 to 43 agreed to.

Clause 44:

Amendment moved— Page 30, line 33, leave out ("manager") and insert ("superintendent").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 44, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 45 and 46 agreed to.

Clause 47:

Amendments moved—

Page 32, line 21, after ("guardianship") insert ("shall")

Page 32, line 23, after ("house") insert ("or to or from guardianship")

Page 32, line 24, after ("house") insert ("or to guardianship")

Page 32, line 25, leave out ("shall for that purpose").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 47, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 48 to 53 agreed to.

Clause 54:

Amendments moved—

Page 34, line 20, at the beginning of the line insert ("Without prejudice to the provisions of section ninety-three of the Act of 1857 or section twelve of the Act of 1866")

Page 34, line 28, after ("shall") insert ("without prejudice as aforesaid").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 54, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 55 to 62 agreed to.

Clause 63:

Amendment moved—

Page 38, line 34, after subsection (3) insert as a new subsection: (4) All powers vested in a parish council of recovering monies expended in behalf of a poor person shall extend to the recovery by the parish council of such part of the said monies as is by this Act made payable by the district board."—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 63, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 64:

Amendments moved—

Page 38, line 41, after ("Act") insert ("with respect to the assessments for the purposes of the Act of 1857").

Page 39, line 5, leave out ("levied by a parish council acting as a district board") and insert ("leviable under the Acts aforesaid within the parish")

Page 39, line 7, after ("levied") insert ("by the parish council acting as a district board").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Clause 64, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 65 and 66 agreed to.

Clause 67:

Amendment moved— Page 40, line 26, after ("section") insert ("sixty-one and section").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 67, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 68 agreed to.

Clause 69:

Amendment moved— Page 41, line 12, leave out from ("houses") to ("as").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 69, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 70 to 74 agreed to.

Clause 75:

Amendment moved— Page 43, line 13, after ("means") insert ("the husband or wife or").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 75, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 76:

Amendment moved— Page 43, line 28, after ("offence") insert ("for which no special penalty is provided by this Act").—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 76, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 77:

Amendment moved— Page 43, line 35, after ("and") insert ("if within thirty sitting days after they have been so laid either House of Parliament presents an address to His Majesty praying that any such regulations may be annulled, His Majesty may, by Order in Council, annul the regulations, without prejudice however to anything done thereunder, and the regulations made under this Act").—(The Earl of Camperdown.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 77, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule:

Amendments moved— Page 45, third column, leave out lines 5 and 6, at beginning of line 8 insert ("section seven"), and leave out from beginning of line 12 to the end of the Schedule.—(The Lord Chancellor.)

On Question, Amendments agreed to.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR

My Lords, as it is very desirable to get this Bill back to the House of Commons as early as possible, perhaps your Lordships would allow the subsequent stages to be dealt with now.

Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended): Amendments reported: Bill read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons: Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 185.)