POST OFFICE (LONDON) RAILWAY BILL. (Hansard, 11 August 1913)

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR (VISCOUNT HALDANE)
I wish to make a statement regarding the supply of electrical energy. The Select Committee struck out a clause which appeared in the Bill as it came up here from the other House. I will tell your Lordships what it was, but not with a view to moving an Amendment now, because we want to have the clause as we desire to see it restored printed so that your Lordships may consider it on Report. The point is this. The Post Office have their own generating station for electricity. This privilege was given to the Department in the time of the late Government, when Mr. Austen Chamberlain was Postmaster-General, and the central Post Office buildings are supplied with electricity from this source. This is a Bill to enable the Postmaster-General to construct, for the purposes of the Post Office, an underground railway or tube for conveying letters and parcels from the east to the west of London and vice versa, and the Department have always contemplated working the line with their own electricity plant. That was so settled in another place, but the Select Committee of your Lordships' House, under the impression, I presume, that this was a case of municipal trading or something of that kind, struck this provision out, and the position now is that the Post Office are precluded from using their own generating station. I only mention the matter now so that your Lordships may know that it is our intention on Report to put down an Amendment to restore the clause as it was in the Bill when it came from the House of Commons.

THE LORD CHAIRMAN
I am sorry that Lord Newton, who was Chairman of the Committee by whom this Bill was 1740 considered, is not in his place to-day. That is, of course, pardonable, as the noble Lord did not know that it was the intention of the Government to raise the matter. I am bound to say, having read the evidence which the Post Office gave in support of the clause, that in my opinion the Committee could not possibly have come to any other conclusion than that at which they arrived. It is not that the Post Office are going to use their existing plant; they are going to greatly increase their plant. They are not proposing to increase their station, it is true, but they are proposing to put in more machinery at a substantial cost of public money. I understand that we are to discuss the matter to-morrow, but I thought it well to enter this caveat. I do not think that the Committee were frightened by any proposal regarding municipal trading, but were convinced by the evidence that the desired permission should not be given.

LORD MONK BRETTON
There is a much graver question involved in the extension of the Post Office electricity scheme than would at first sight appear, because it would affect the position of the London County Council and their powers in 1931, when they become the electric light authority. I am not prepared to say more at the moment, but I know that very strong exception was taken in the London County Council to the position in which they and the public would be placed by the creation of another electricity undertaking in London. The clause in question was opposed by the companies, and I believe it would be opposed by the boroughs which run electric light undertakings in London. I hope that before any action is taken regarding the decision arrived at by Lord Newton's Committee sufficient time will be given for us to consider the matter and to consult with those who are interested.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
I do not wish to discuss the matter now. An Amendment will be put down for tomorrow. I am informed by the Post Office that their desire is to work their own line and to use their existing generating station, thus reducing the standing charges in respect of that station. It is not a case of wasting public money, but of reducing the standing charges which the Post Office already have. No doubt this would necessitate a greater output of electricity for the purpose, but the standing charges are there.

§ THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE
I understand that the suggestion of the noble and learned Viscount is that the House should reserve judgment on the point until we have seen the clause on the Paper to-morrow. I think that would be convenient.

THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN
I would remind the House that there are only four or five days remaining of this session. Surely it is a serious matter to dispute the finding of a Committee without any notice being given to the Chairman of the Committee to be present. I know nothing about what the Committee did; but as the Lord Chairman has stated that in his opinion the Committee arrived at a right decision, surely an Amendment should not be moved to upset that decision without adequate notice being given.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
I should like to know whether there is any explanation why the period of two years is inserted in the proviso to subsection (1) of this clause. Two years from the commencement of the work is a very short period in which to decide whether or not the electric railway is going to do damage to your house. It 1742 so happens that I may be personally affected by one of these railways, but it may take two years from the commencement of the work before the railway gets anywhere near my house, or two years might expire before any trains run upon it.

§ THE EARL OF CRAVEN
It is not a line for trains, but a 9 ft. tube for conveying parcels.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
As I understand, the proposal is to have a small train. There will not be a man on the train, but if will be an electric train to convey parcels. It seems to me that two years from the commencement of the work is a very short time in which to find out whether or not, the scheme is doing damage to your property, and I therefore move that "five years" be substituted for "two years."

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
It would be more convenient to take this Amendment to-morrow with the other Amendment of which I have given notice.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
I am afraid I shall not be here to-morrow. As the Government are taking the Committee stage of this Bill to-day perhaps I may be allowed to move the Amendment now.

§ THE LORD CHANCELLOR
I would remind the noble Earl that I have had no notice at all of his Amendment. The Home had been given no notice of my Amendment, and therefore I did not press it to-day. I hope the noble Earl will also consent to postpone his Amendment.

§ THE EARL OF DERBY
Very well. I will get one of my noble friends on the Front Bench to move the Amendment for me to-morrow.