MOVABLE DWELLINGS BILL, [H.L.] (Hansard, 27 March 1912)

§ LORD CLIFFORD OF CHUDLEIGH

My Lords, I do not intend upon this occasion to detain your Lordships long in moving the Second Reading of this Bill. The Bill has already been twice before your Lordships, and is in precisely the same form in which it passed your Lordships' House last year. The class of people to whom it refers are very much outside our social laws and even our education laws, and although considerable powers have been given of dealing with them from an educational point of view, I am sorry to say that the working of those powers is in practice very inefficient. This Bill is of a very limited scope. Clause 1 gives to county councils power to prohibit encampment on certain grounds for sanitary reasons. Clause 2 gives power to the county council, with the approval of the Local Government Board, to provide camps in various parts of the county. The Local Government Board and the county council are to take into consideration the general interests of the public and the ability of occupiers to comply with the regulations which are made, and when this is done they have power to forbid encampment on certain land and on private ground where the owner objects, and the police have power to remove those who, in defiance of the published regulations, persist in camping on the ground. There is a clause for the protection of showmen, whose interests should be taken into consideration. The 649 sanitary authority are asked to assist the county council by giving information and otherwise helping them in carrying out the regulations which are made. There are the usual monetary provisions and provisions saving the rights of the naval and military authorities, and there are the usual definitions. I believe that the Home Office still hold the objection which they urged in your Lordships' House before as to the duty placed on constables to remove persons who have broken the by-laws made by the county council, but all these matters will come up when the Bill is considered in Committee, and therefore I will not weary your Lord ships by referring to them further at this stage. I beg to move.

§ VISCOUNT ALLENDALE

My Lords, as Lord Clifford has reminded you, this Bill has been before your Lordships' House for three or four years. Last year it was reintroduced in an amended form as recommended by the Select Committee to whom your Lordships referred the Bill in 1910. Lord Clifford has reminded your Lordships of the main provisions of the Bill, and therefore I do not propose going into them. In fact, the Bill has been before your Lordships' House so often that it is unnecessary for me to do so. The Local Government Board and the other Government Departments concerned have endeavoured to amend the Bill and to put it into a workable shape to meet the grievance which exists in regard to gypsies and van dwellers. It is a distinct grievance in certain parts, but only in limited counties and localities. The question seems to be really one for local authorities to deal with; but how far county councils will take advantage of the Bill, especially in view of some considerable expense which may be involved, is another matter. As Lord Clifford mentioned, the Home Office raise an objection to the provision which your Lordships inserted in the Bill last year, imposing on the police, under Clause 2, the new duty of removing from commons and private lands persons who encamp there without authority, and I understand that the Chief Constable of Surrey, the county where I believe this grievance is most acute, says he will not be able to undertake this work with the present force at his disposal. I understand that my noble friend Lord Ashby St. Ledgers, who represents the 650 Home Office in your Lordships' House, will move an Amendment to this particular part of the Bill when we get into Committee. At the present stage, however, the Government have no wish whatever to oppose the Bill, but are quite prepared to support it, subject to any Amendments that may be considered necessary.