HL Deb 29 November 1911 vol 10 cc428-32

ROADS EXEMPTED FROM THE OPERATION OF THE MILITARY MANŒUVRES BILL. AND OF THE MANŒUVRES ACT, 1897.

England and Wales.

  1. 1. London—Romford, Chelmsford, Colchester to Lowestoft.
  2. 2. London—Harlow, Thetford, Norwich to Cromer.
  3. 3. London (Great North Road) viâ Hatfield, Stamford, Doncaster, Newcastle to Edinburgh.
  4. 4. London (Holyhead Road) viâ St. Albans, Coventry, Shrewsbury to Holyhead.
  5. 5. London (Oxford Road) viâ Beaconsfield, Oxford, Gloucester to Aberystwith.
  6. 6. London (Bath Road) viâ Reading, Marlborough, Bath to Bristol, and thence to Taunton, Exeter and S. Wales.
  7. 7. London (Exeter Road) viâ Staines, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Amesbury, Ilchester, Exeter over Dartmoor to Bodmin and Land's End.
  8. 8. London (Southampton Road) viâ Staines, Basingstoke, Winchester, Southampton, Totton, and Lyndhurst to Bournemouth, or viâ Romsey, Ringwood, Poole, and Wareham to Weymouth.
  9. 9. London (Portsmouth Road) viâ Esher, Guildford, Petersfield to Portsmouth.
  10. 10. London (Brighton Road) viâ Croydon, Reigate, Handcross to Brighton.
  11. 11 London—Tonbridge, Battle to Hastings.
  12. 12. London—Maidstone, Ashford to Dover.
  13. 13. London—Rochester, Canterbury to Margate.

Cross Roads.—The Exeter, Bristol, Worcester, Kidderminster, Warrington Road, through Lancaster to Carlisle.

Cross Road from east to west of England, taking line of Norwich, Stamford, Leicester, Birmingham towards Swansea.

Southampton, Winchester, Newbury, Oxford, Banbury to Coventry.

Scotland.

  1. 1. Carlisle, Lockerbie to Glasgow, and viâ Moffat or Biggar to Edinburgh.
  2. 2. Carlisle, Langholin, Galashiels to Edinburgh.
  3. 3. Carter Bar, Jedburgh, Lauder to Edinburgh.
  4. 4. Abington, Lanark, Airdie to Stirling and Perth.
  5. 5. Perth, Kingussie, Inverness, Bonar Bridge, Brora to Wick.
  6. 6. Glasgow to Oban.
  7. 7. Edinburgh viâ Queensferry to Perth.
  8. 8. Berwick viâ Dunbar to Edinburgh.
  9. 9. Perth to Aberdeen.
  10. 10. Glasgow to Edinburgh.
  11. 11. Glasgow to Ayr and Stranraer.
  12. 12. Glasgow to Kilmarnock, Dumfries, and Carlisle.

The noble Lord, in moving his first Amendment, said: I have put down the Amendment standing in my name with the object of finding out whether the noble Viscount in charge of the Bill will give us some assurance as to the closing of main roads. They can be closed for six hours under the Bill now before the House. To close main roads for such a length of time in these days would be a very drastic proceeding indeed, considering the great amount of through traffic there now is. In 1897 motor cars had not come into existence and our main roads were used then principally for local purposes. Now-a-days they are used for through traffic, not only by the more expensive kinds of motor cars, but by motor cyclists (and ordinary cyclists) and many commercial forms of motor traffic, and the closing of our main roads to-clay would mean as great an inconvenience as the closing of a main line of a railway. I am sure the House will agree with me in thinking that this is an important point, and one which we cannot well pass over without some assurance from the Government on the subject.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 10, after ("justices") insert ("except the roads mentioned in the Schedule of this Bill").—(Lord Montagu of Beaulieu.)

VISCOUNT HALDANE

I think the noble Lord is justified in asking for some information about this. It would be very mischievous if we intended to interfere with main roads in the fashion which has given rise to the apprehension in the noble Lord's mind, but that is not the case. We are forced to take the power because it is impossible to say what is a main road and what is not, and to schedule them would be extremely difficult. I notice that the Schedule suggested by the noble Lord does not include Ireland. That would leave Ireland in a very unhappy position. But I may tell the noble Lord that we do not propose to meddle with the main roads; on the contrary, it is most essential to leave them free for traffic; but there are cross roads which might affect the manœuvre area which it is desirable to keep closed for a few hours. We have to take our powers in general terms because it is not easy to make certain that a cross road may not be regarded as a main road; it is a vague term. In the first place, we shall not apply in respect of main roads; and, in the second place, if we did I do not think the justices would give their authorisation. Anyhow, I think the noble Lord may rest assured that we are alive to the public mischief which would ensue if we did, and we certainly do not intend to do so. I have had a conversation with the General Staff officers who direct these proceedings, and can assure the noble Lord that we are not proposing to do more than is absolutely necessary.

LORD MONTAGU OF BEAULIEU

I am much obliged to the noble Viscount. I take it that what he has said amounts to a general undertaking that main roads will be interfered with as little as possible, and that where he closes cross roads he will give notice of the closing as far back the road as possible so that any one coming down the main road may, on approaching the area that is closed, have an opportunity of going round some other way.

VISCOUNT HALDANE

I think the noble Lord may take it that that is the practice that will be observed. We always wish to leave as good and fragrant a recollection behind us as we possibly can, and we are anxious to maintain the good character which the noble Lord, Lord Haversham, has given us.

LORD MONTAGU OF BEAULIEU

I am much obliged to the noble Viscount. I quite endorse what the noble Lord opposite (Lord Haversham) said with regard to the troops. We are only too delighted to welcome them and to give them every facility. I raised this point, not out of any unfriendliness to the Bill, but in order that some attention should be paid to the main roads and the through traffic upon them.

VISCOUNT MIDLETON

Although I recognise the importance of the question, I think the noble Lord is quite right to trust the War Office in this matter. My recollection in carrying out the Act of 1897 is that in almost every instance the forebodings with which that Act was regarded and the inconvenience that it was expected would be caused by it, were found to be quite unjustified and absolutely without foundation.

VISCOUNT HALDANE

That is quite true, and virtually this Bill represents a continuous policy. I quite agree with the noble Viscount that the working of the Act of 1897 falsified all the sinister apprehensions that were expressed with regard to it. I hear on all hands that the conduct of the troops during manœuvres has been admirable throughout, and I think both officers and men, if I may say so, are increasingly aware of how important it is to them to have the welcome and the goodwill of the public. I can only say, in support of what fell from my noble friend Lord Haversham, that on the small property I have in Perthshire I had a very large number of troops for the size of the property quartered there for a week, and I am sure that a more orderly and considerate set of men and a more thoughtful body of officers you could not find, and I think that is the general experience of those who throw their land open to the military.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

LORD MONTAGU OF BEAULIEU

After what the noble Viscount has said, I withdraw my proposed Schedule. I have his undertaking, which is equally valuable.

The Report of Amendments to be received on Monday next, and Standing Order No. XXXIX to be considered in order to its being dispensed with: Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 225.)