THE ARMY. (Hansard, 11 May 1911)

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
My Lords, I have to thank the noble Duke for deferring his Questions until to-day, which has given me the opportunity of looking into them more closely. His first Question relates to men returning from abroad on the expiration of their term of Colour service, and he asks whether they are shown in the strength of the Reserve or with the Colours. The answer is that men are not shown, according to the figures which I have given, in the strength of the Reserve until they have actually been transferred to the Reserve.
The second Question is whether men in the Second Class of the Army Reserve are considered fit for the fighting line of the Expeditionary Force. I have never understood why the noble Duke speaks of the Second Class of the Army Reserve. We do not know that term in connection with these men. There are the men in Section D. I grant that a man who has been a long time away from the Colours is not so good as a man who has been only one or two years away. But in Section D no man of the Infantry, Cavalry, or Royal Artillery is now allowed to enter who has been more than five or at any rate six years from the Colours, and there are men who have been away a shorter time. No doubt in Section D there may be men not as fit as others for fighting, and the longer a man is away from the Colours the less fit he is; but I am advised that the greater proportion are well fitted and suited to take their place in the fighting line. There are, as I say, some who are not suitable, but we can use those who are fit, and of these there is an abundance.
In his third Question the noble Duke asks whether the surplus of the Regular Reserve above the requirements of the Expeditionary Force of 28,130 mentioned by me on May 4 last refers to 1910 or to 1913, and whether it is calculated on establishment. The answer is that I took the figures of the noble Duke in his Questions. Where they referred to 1913 my answers referred to 1913, and where he was referring to the 1910 Return or the 1907 Return I took those figures. They followed the 360 Questions put by the noble Duke. I wish, however, to make a correction in the figure which I gave. It should be 27,000. The next question is as to the standard of age below which non-commissioned officers and men will not be considered qualified to serve abroad with the Expeditionary Force in India and elsewhere. Since the year 1899, from the time of the noble Marquess Lord Lansdowne, it has been customary, while not sending drafts to India under twenty years of age, to count in, under certain services, men of nineteen as fit to go there or to any other part of the Empire with the Expeditionary Force. Those services are the Royal Artillery, the Army Service Corps, the Royal Army Medical Corps, the Army Ordnance Corps, and the Royal Engineers. We do not send, and have not sent, men under twenty years of age abroad in the Cavalry or the Infantry, but for the Artillery they have been considered fit for the last twelve years. My advisers have no reason to alter their opinion that provided a soldier has attained nineteen years he is fit for these services; but for the other combatant arms the age of twenty obtains.
As regards the twenty-seven fourth battalions, referred to in the fifth Question, they are, of course, available for foreign service just as much as any others, as they are enlisted and organised for that purpose. As the noble Duke correctly said, their primary purpose would be for lines of communication, or to relieve units abroad which are to proceed to war. They would get opportunities for additional training before being called upon to take an active part in the fighting line, which they might have to do later on. As regards the particular numbers, the new system recently adopted has not been long enough in operation to enable us to judge. The establishment of 750 has to be obtained by bringing a couple of hundred ex-Regulars into the battalion. We do not know yet how that is going to work. I am glad to say that recruiting both for the Regulars and for the Special Reserve was very much better during the past week than during the preceding week. I dare say all these things are being affected by emigration just now, but last week the figures jumped up. I cannot tell for some little time how this experiment of adding 200 men, a good many of whom will be ex-Regulars, to the twenty-seven fourth battalions will succeed, nor can I tell yet whether the Officers 361 Training Corps is going to be fruitful. All one can say is that it promises well, but one has got to see.
Now, I come to the last Question. The noble Duke asks whether I will cause Table I, War Establishments, dated April 8, 1907, to be laid upon the Table of the House in identically the same form as when first issued, but corrected up to date. I said the other day that I would consider that, and I have done so. My advisers think, and I am bound to say I agree with them, that there is a considerable difference between the state of things in 1907 and now. In 1907 we were only giving our plans of the way we proposed to make up the war establishment. In 1910 things got very much further on, and as I stated the other day, one Cavalry Division and six Divisions could now be mobilised, four of them within ten days and the remainder within twenty-one days, and we hope all will be capable of being mobilised within ten days shortly. But that involves, even now, certain arrangements being made. There are certain special enlistments, and certain changes which the introduction of mechanical transport is bringing about. If I were to lay on the Table a War Establishment Paper as in 1907 we should be giving information as to mobilisation of a much more practical kind than that given in 1907 when things were still in the air, and my advisers think we ought not to do that to-day. Certainly in no foreign Army would it be done, and I think the time has come when we should proceed a little carefully in these matters. But I know the noble Duke's great interest in this subject, and I have seen the Director of Organisation, who will be prepared to place at the disposal of the noble Duke any information he desires. The noble Duke will, of course, keep the information confidential so far as details are concerned. But that will not preclude him from making criticism so long as he does not make use of the ipsissima verba, which it is not desirable in the public interest to publish.

§ THE DUKE OF BEDFORD
I am very much obliged to the noble Viscount for his answers, but I am not quite able to follow him yet on the point of the transfer to the Reserve. If you make an estimate of the number of your Reserve it seems to me that you must include in that estimate those drafts that come home and are due to pass into the Reserve. I gather that you do 362 not count them in the Reserve until they are actually transferred, but it seems to me they are included in the estimated strength of the Reserve. They cannot be in two places at one time, and as they are estimated for in the Reserve, you cannot count the men with the Colours as well. Again, I am not quite certain what the noble Viscount means by including ex-Regular soldiers in his twenty-seven extra battalions. Does he mean the men who have been through Section D?

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
As the noble Duke knows, we propose to enlist a certain section of veterans—of course, not veterans in the ordinary sense of the word—of any age up to thirty-one or so who have passed through a period of Reserve service but have not entered Section D. There are numerous men passing every year through the Reserve out of the Army altogether. There are some who serve in Section D, but we have reason to believe that there is another section of men who, if they could get the training, would join the battalions. That is the experiment which the Adjutant-General is now making.

§ THE DUKE OF BEDFORD
But surely the noble Viscount has taken Section D for the Expeditionary Force. Now he is going to divert them and send them into the twenty-seven fourth battalions.

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
I think the stream that flows out of the Reserve every year is ample for both, if they choose to come in.

§ THE DUKE OF BEDFORD
The noble Viscount is right there, so long as the enormous exodus due to the three years' term of enlistment is going on, but that will cease in time. These battalions will be required, of course, for foreign service. The noble Viscount did not answer as to whether the surplus is calculated on establishment.

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
Yes; on establishment at present, but we hope to make establishment and strength the same thing.

§ THE DUKE OF BEDFORD
I would give an instance. The Special Contingent last November was very much below the full numbers, and the Army Medical Corps also had a deficiency. The two together were 8,361.

§ VISCOUNT HALDANE
When I spoke of that, I was only speaking of the Regulars. In the Special Contingent we took the actual figures.

§ THE DUKE OF BEDFORD
I thank the noble Viscount for his kind offer to give me the information, but of course I regret that he has not been able to produce the Return. I beg to withdraw my Motion.