TELEPHONE TRANSFER BILL. (Hansard, 17 August 1911)

THE EARL OF LIVERPOOL
My Lords, it may be for the convenience of the House, as this Bill has not been printed and as there is very little time for getting it through its various stages. that in moving the First Reading I should briefly state the various stages of the transfer which has taken place between the Post, Office and the National Telephone Company. The negotiations first started when the Conservative Government were in office, and I think they were initiated by Lord Derby.
As regards the question of payment, the Bill makes provision for taking over the whole of the business of the National Telephone Co. First, the Post Office pay for the whole of the working plant and buy it on tramway terms, that is, making allowance for depreciation—i.e., construction cost less depreciation. Secondly, the Post Office pay for the goodwill of the private wire business the average profits for the last three years. Thirdly, the Post Office pay for the goodwill of the business in the Brighton and Portsmouth area, where the National Telephone Co.'s licence was extended beyond 1911. Settlement is arranged either by agreement or by arbitration, and there are now no outstanding points of opposition either on the part of the company or the staff. The Bill authorises the Treasury to pay the purchase price, which may be settled, as I have said. by agreement or arbitration.
Then as to the transfer of the staff. The Postmaster-General will transfer to the Post Office service the whole of the staff of the company, with the exception of a few of the higher officials, such as the directors, &c. The general condition of the transfer is that the staff will be transferred to the grades of the Post Office doing similar work, and their seniority as compared with the [...] Office staff will depend on the relative service in corresponding duties in the company or Post Office. As regards the pensioning of the staff, under certain conditions a portion of the service when in the employment of the company will be counted towards [...] namely, a period of two years will be [...] from their entry into the Post Office service, with the exception of those who had not completed two years service with the National Telephone Co., and these will count the actual period which they had in the company's service towards pension. Those members 1143 of the staff of the National Telephone Co. who joined the company's pension fund in 1896 will, provided they transfer their shares in the pension fund when it is wound up to the Postmaster-General, be allowed to count for pension purposes the years of their service with the company or any other telephone undertaking. Those who joined the National Telephone Co. subsequent to 1896 will be allowed to count the years during which they had been members of the company's pension fund. There was in a very few cases a difficulty to assimilate the company's pension list with that of the Post Office, but this has now been arranged and cleared up by giving an additional salary in lieu of pension in about twenty-five cases in all and they have a guarantee of permanent employment. I may add that under the company's scheme only 2,000 people were pensionable; under the Post Office roughly 12,000 are pensionable out of a total of 18,000 transferred from the National Telephone Co. to the Post Office. I think that briefly describes the main points of the transfer. I beg to move.

§ VISCOUNT ST. ALDWYN
The noble Earl has said quite enough to show the importance of this Bill, and what I would ask is whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to proceed further with it to-morrow. The Bill is one of a character which requires a little further consideration and discussion, and unless there is some real cause for urgency I suppose it would not be proceeded with until the autumn. At any rate I would ask, with regard to both this Bill and the Public Works Loans Bill, that we might have them printed before we are asked to proceed further with them.

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (VISCOUNT HALDANE)
As regards the Telephone Transfer Bill, definite agreements have to be made and it is a matter of urgency that the Bill should be got through. I am very sorry that it has reached your Lordships so late. It was a Bill the foundations of which were laid by the late Administration, and consequently Mr. Austin Chamberlain took very great interest in the Bill in the recent discussions in the House of Commons. It was very thoroughly sifted in the other House and passed with the approval of both Parties.
1144 Your Lordships may be satisfied that the provisions have been carefully scanned and approved, even to the details of the finance. As regards the Public Works Loans Bill, the Bill is here and we will get it printed to-night so that it will be in your Lordships' hands to-morrow. It is very much in the usual form.