§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEMy Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether they can state the exact position at the present moment of Engineer Commanders in respect of pay. Whether Engineer Commanders on promotion to that rank from the rank of Engineer Lieutenant always receive the pay of 24s. a day, according to the scale laid down in Admiralty Circular Letter, No. 140 of 19th December 1902, or not. Whether, when in November, 1903, the promotion of Engineer Lieutenants to Engineer Commanders was temporarily accelerated front eight years to four years on the senior list, it was made clear that such promotions were to be treated in the matter of minimum pay exceptionally and not according to the scale laid down in Circular Letter No. 140; and, if so, how this distinction of treatment was made clear, and when these temporary accelerations of promotion will cease, and the minimum rate of pay for Engineer Commander really become 24s. a day.
§ THE EARL OF GRANARDMy Lords, the Question my noble friend asks refers to the time when he was First Lord of the Admiralty. The actual point in dispute is with reference to a Circular Letter issued by the Admiralty on November 1, 1903. This Circular Letter states as follows:—
My Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, having reviewed the Regulations governing the promotion, relative rank, &c., of the Medical, Accountant, and Engineer Officers of the Royal Navy, have decided to introduce the following changes therein.I will simply state the one point which I think is relevant—Engineer Lieutenants on the Senior List will be promoted to Engineer Commander after four years on the Senior List instead of eight. In connection with this alteration the descriptive portions of the existing scales of full pay for Engineer Lieutenants (Senior List) and Engineer Commanders are amended as follows.Then they are set out. I think the whole trouble has arisen from the words, "descriptive portions." I do not think that this Circular Letter was particularly well drafted, but be that as it may, I do not 1063 think the Admiralty can be accused in any way of breaking their pledges. What did my noble friend do? He introduced an improved scale of pay. He reduced the time in the rank of engineer cadet from5 to 4 years. He reduced the period of service of Engineer sub-Lieutenants from 6 years to 2½years. He established a fixed period of 8 years for the Engineer Lieutenants on the Junior List in place of the variable period extending to 10½years in the past; and in that case what happens now is that every Engineer Lieutenant is bound to get his promotion after 8 years on the Senior List. As a matter of fact now, owing to accelerated promotion, he gets it in 4, but previous to my noble friend's amendments it was generally 10½or even longer. I may also state that the pay at present of an Engineer Commander is 18s.; after 2 years service he gets£1, and after 4 years' service£14s. That means that 8 years after he is advanced to the Senior List of Engineer Lieutenants he gets£1 4s., as stated in the original Memorandum issued by the noble Earl in December, 1902. I really do not think that the engineering branch of the Navy have anything to complain of, especially in view of the fact that the noble Earl, when First Lord of the Admiralty, expended over£27,000 a year extra in the way of pay to that particular branch.
§ THE EARL OF SELBORNEWould the noble Earl tell me when this accelerated promotion is going to cease?
§ THE EARL OF GRANARDI beg the noble Earl's pardon for not mentioning that. I understand that the accelerated promotion will cease after 1912. The other question that I omitted to answer was when every Engineer Commander in the Navy would get a minimum pay of£1 4s. a day. That period will not be reached, I am afraid, before the year 1922, but there is a possibility that it may be reached at a somewhat earlier date.