Lords Sitting of 24 February 1910

EARL OF RODEN.
Petition of Robert Julian Orde Jocelyn, Earl of Roden, in the Peerage of Ireland, claiming a right to vote at the elections of Representative Peers for Ireland; read, and referred to the Lord Chancellor to consider and report thereupon to the House.
Several Lords Several Lords—Took the Oath.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR THE LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:

Abertillery and District Water Board.

Ammanford Gas.

Assam Railways and Trading Company.

Baker Street and Waterloo Railway.

Bankers Guarantee and Trust Fund Incorporation.

Barry Railway.

Bishop's Stortford, Harlow, and Epping Gas and Electricity.

Blackpool Improvement.

Bradford Corporation.

Brighton and Hove Gas.

Bristol Gas.

Cambridge University and Town Water.

Cardiff Railway.

Cavehill and Whitewell Tramways.

Central Argentine Railway.

Charing Cross, Euston, and Hampstead Railway.

Charnwood Forest Railway.

Chipping Norton Gas and Electricity.

City of Dublin Steam Packet Company.

City of London (Tithes and Rates).

Coventry Railway.

Crystal Palace Company.

Devonport and District Tramways.

Eastbourne Corporation.

East Grinstead Gas and Water.

Egremont Urban District Council (Gas).

Exmouth Gas.

Exmouth Urban District Water.

Farnham Gas and Electricity.

Fylde Water Board.

Garnant Gas.

Gas Companies (Standard Burner) (No. 1).

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Gas Companies (Standard Burner) (No. 2).

Gas Companies (Standard Burner) (No. 3).

Gowerton Gas.

Great Central Railway.

Great Grimsby Gas.

Great Western Railway (General Powers).

Handsworth Urban District Council.

Havant Gas.

Kingstown Urban District Council.

Kingswood Water.

Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway.

Leeds Corporation.

Little Hulton Urban District Council.

Liverpool and London and Globe Insurance Company.

London County Council (General Powers).

London Electric Railway Amalgamation.

London United Tramways.

Mallow Gas.

Mallow Urban District Gas.

Maltby and Tickhill Water.

Maltby Gas.

Mansfield Railway.

Matlock Bath and Scarthin Nick Urban District Council.

Mersey Railway.

Metropolitan District Railway.

Metropolitan Railway.

Middlesbrough Corporation.

Middleton Corporation.

Midland Railway.

Morecambe Tramways.

Mountain Ash Water.

National Provident Institution.

North East London Railway.

North and South Shields Electric Railway.

Nottingham Corporation.

Padstow Harbour.

Pontypridd and Rhondda Joint Water Board.

Pontypridd Water (Extension of Time).

Provident Association of London.

Reading and District Electric Supply.

Rhondda Urban District Council (Tramways Extension, &c.).

St. James's Vestry Hall (Westminster).

Saint Just-in-Roseland Docks.

Saint Mary Stockport Rectory.

Shirebrook and District Gas.

Slough Water.

Society of Apothecaries of London.

South Hants Water.

South Lincolnshire Water.

Southampton Corporation.

Southend Water.

Staffordshire Potteries Water.

Stepney Borough Council (Market Rights).

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Stoke-on-Trent, Borough (Amendment).

Stratford-upon-Avon and Midland Junction Railway.

Surbiton Urban District Council.

Taff Vale Railway (Cardiff Railway Vesting).

Taff Vale Railway (Rhymney Railway Vesting).

Thorne and District Water.

Tipperary Gas.

Trent Railway and Bridge.

Tynemouth Corporation.

Warrington Corporation.

Wear Navigation and Sunderland Dock.

Whitland Water and Gas.

Wicklow Gas.

Wimbledon and Sutton Railway.

Worksop Urban District Council.

Yorkshire Electric Power.

Yorkshire Registries and Driffield Navigation.

Also the Certificates that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have not been complied with:
London County Council (Tramways and Improvements).
St. Austell and Pentewan Dock and Railway.
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

CROWN LANDS.
Moved, That the Order of the 20th October last for a Return respecting, be discharged, and that the following Return be laid before the House in substitution thereof, viz.: Return specifying the acreage in each county of England (including Wales) and of Scotland (1) of lands belonging to the Crown, under separate heads for those lands under the administration of the Commissioners of Woods and Forest3 and those under the Duchy of Lancaster, and (2) of lands under the administration of the Duchy of Cornwall; together with the approximate area of land subject to commonable rights in each case (The Marquess of Salisbury); agreed to, and ordered accordingly.
WITTON GRAMMAR SCHOOL, NORTHWICH.
Scheme under the Endowed Schools Acts, for the grammar school at Witton, Northwich, in the county of Chester: Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and to be printed. (No. 4.)
UNIVERSITIES OF OXFORD AND CAMBRIDGE ACT, 1877.
Statute made by the Governing Body of Lincoln College, Oxford, on the 6th November 1909, and sealed on the 15th of the same month, amending Chapter 2, Section 5; Chapter 6, Sections 4, 5, and 6; Chapter 7, Section 1; and Chapter 8, Sections 1 and 2, of the Statutes of the College: Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and to be printed. (No. 5.)
CROWN LANDS.
Return respecting: Laid before the House (according to Order of this day), and to be printed. (No. 6.)
ROLL OF THE LORDS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had prepared and laid it on the Table: The same was ordered to be printed. (No. 7.)
REFORM OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: My Lords, I beg to give notice that on March 14 I shall move "That this House do resolve itself into Committee to consider the best means of reforming its existing organisation so as to constitute a strong and efficient Second Chamber."

THE DALAI LAMA OF TIBET.
LORD CURZON OF KEDLESTON: My Lords, I beg to ask the Secretary of State for India the Question which I have put on the Paper—namely, whether he can give any information to the House about the reported flight of the Dalai Lama of Tibet to India, or about recent affairs in Tibet; and whether he proposes to lay Papers before Parliament. I may say that it is about two years, if not longer, since last we had any Papers about Tibetan matters laid before either House of Parliament.
THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (VISCOUNT MORLEY OF BLACKBURN): My Lords, I think it is quite natural that the noble Lord should put a Question on this subject, because the incident is, no doubt, a most remarkable and interesting performance. The Dalai Lama left Peking on December 21, 1908, and is reported to have arrived at Lhasa on December 25, 1909. Very little is
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known of his movements between those two dates, but he appears to have spent two months at Nagchuka (eight or nine days journey from Lhasa) before proceeding to the capital. It had been rumoured for some time that there was considerable friction between the Tibetan Government and the Chinese officials. This was said to be increased by the activity of Chao Erh Feng, former Viceroy of Szechuen, who had been appointed Amban in March, 1908, and with a Chinese military force was slowly advancing in Eastern Tibet, where he had been for some months in the neighbourhood of Batang, awaiting no doubt the arrival of the Dalai Lama.
No information at all has reached Calcutta how the crisis was precipitated. But about January 30 the British trade agent at Gyantse received a visit from a Tibetan official specially sent by the Dalai Lama, and this official stated to our agent that the Chinese army was at Chiamdo (about 400 miles from Lhasa), the Tibetan troops being massed half-a-day's march from it. Nothing more was heard until February 17. The British agent telegraphed that day that forty Chinese mounted infantry had arrived at Lhasa on the 12th, that the rest of the Chinese army was close to the city, and that the Dalai Lama had fled the same night in the direction of India. He arrived at Phari (accompanied by three Ministers, three shapés, and about 100 men) on the 17th, after a fight with the Chinese at Chaksam. He stayed at the British dak bungalow. He arrived at Yatung, which, as the noble Lord knows, is in the Chumbi Valley, on the 20th, pursued by the Chinese, and left the next day for Gnatong, whence he is expected to arrive at Darjiling, in British India, on the 27th, three days from now.
On receiving news of the Dalai Lama's flight the Government of India at once issued orders to the British Agents at Gyantse and Yatung, and to the Political Officer in Sikkim, to maintain an attitude of strict neutrality. This has been scrupulously observed. The only communication that has been received from the Lama since he quitted Lhasa is a message left by him with our Trade Agent at Yatung to the effect that he was proceeding to India to consult the British Government, to whom he looks for protection. He gave no

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indication of the cause of his flight, except that the people of Lhasa had been greatly oppressed by the Chinese, mounted infantry having arrived and fired on the Tibetans, killing and wounding some of them. He thanked the British Government for the courtesy with which he had been treated.
I ought to tell your Lordships that about ten days ago a Tibetan deputation arrived at Calcutta, and a similar deputation waited on the British Minister at Peking on the 21st instant. Both of these parties had left Tibet before the crisis, however it arose, became acute, and came to Calcutta and Peking for the purpose of notifying the Dalai Lama's return to Lhasa, and representing the grievous trouble the Tibetans were in. Upon arrival at Darjiling the Dalai Lama will be invited to occupy Hastings House at Calcutta until other arrangements can be made. Strict neutrality will continue to be observed; but he will be received with the courtesy and respect due to a ruler of high spiritual authority, who is an object of veneration to many millions of His Majesty's Indian subjects. His Majesty's Government at home are in communication with the Chinese Government with regard to the unexpected situation which has thus been created. They have no information beyond the very meagre information I have been able to give to the House which could with advantage be laid before Parliament. The noble Lord asks for Papers. My impression is that there are no Papers really worth producing, or which it would be advantageous to produce at the moment, but I will look carefully into the matter.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: Are there no Papers throwing any light on the situation at Lhasa? I gather from the statement of the noble Viscount that Lhasa has been virtually occupied by a Chinese force, with the result that this high official, whom the noble Viscount properly describes as being an object of veneration to many millions of His Majesty's subjects, has been forcibly expelled from Lhasa and has taken refuge in British territory. I should have thought that there would have been some information available as to that fact, and whether Lhasa has been occupied by a Chinese force.
VISCOUNT MORLEY OF BLACKBURN: I think it would be premature to say that the Dalai Lama has been forcibly expelled. Of course, the most meagre and curt
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statements have been supplied to us, and what they amount to is that he has fled. The exact and precise reasons why he fled we do not know, nor do we know exactly when the Chinese either marched into Lhasa or assailed the Tibetan force. The state of the Tibetan mind was explained to the Government of India by deputations, but I will look further, and if I can find Papers worth producing I will certainly not fail to produce them.
THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: I should like to ask whether the Chinese Government has given any reasons for marching this force to Lhasa.
VISCOUNT MORLEY OF BLACKBURN: No; the communications with the Chinese Government have only just begun. They are conducted, as the noble Earl knows, by the Foreign Office. When anything occurs at Peking which is of interest to your Lordships and can be prudently put before the public, I will, of course, take the opportunity to do so if the Foreign Secretary consents.
LORD CURZON OF KEDLESTON: By Papers I do not mean Papers merely about the transactions which have culminated in the incident which the noble Viscount has described. I mean Papers carrying forward the history of the policy of His Majesty's Government towards Tibet from the date when the last Papers were laid before Parliament. As far as I remember, this was done just before we had the debate on the Anglo-Russian Convention two years ago, and since then His Majesty's Government have been pursuing a policy towards Tibet about which we know very little, but which will most likely and properly come under the attention of Parliament. It would help us materially if we had all the Papers on that aspect of the subject.
VISCOUNT MORLEY OF BLACKBURN: I understood that the noble Lord did not refer only to this new incident, but that he wanted all the Papers since the present Government took office.
LORD CURZON OF KEDLESTON: Yes, if we can.
VISCOUNT MORLEY OF BLACKBURN: I will look into that subject.
House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Eleven o'clock.