HL Deb 27 April 1910 vol 5 cc767-72
EARL STANHOPE

My Lords, I rise to ask His Majesty's Government what is the nature of the changes which the Chinese Government have made or propose to make in connection with the Imperial Maritime Customs Service by the establishment of a Board of Control; what are the powers and composition of the Board and whether, in view of the recent changes in the personnel of the Board, His Majesty's Government will insist upon a full recognition of the Inspector-General's undivided control over the personnel and finances of the Chinese Imperial Customs in accordance with the Loan Agreements of 1896 and 1898.

This is a question of considerable importance touching very vast interests. It really concerns the security of capital of the amount of over £40,000,000, the greater part of which is invested by people in this country, but a great deal of which is also invested by persons living on the Continent and in America. Perhaps it would be to the convenience of the House if I should state, very briefly, the views which I believe are generally held, and thus give an opportunity to the noble Earl of contradicting such as are erroneous or based upon misconception. In 1896 and 1898 the Chinese Government desired to raise this loan of something over £40,000,000, and the sole security was to be the Imperial Maritime Customs Service. In order that this service should be administered to the satisfaction of Great Britain and foreign countries, it was agreed that the whole service should be under the absolute control of an Inspector-General who should be an Englishman. The clause in the Agreement reads as follows:— The Chinese Imperial Government undertake that the administration of the Chinese Imperial Maritime Customs shall remain as at present constituted during the currency of the loan. That is to say, up to the year 1943. Sir Robert Hart, the then Inspector-General, had been already, I think, about thirty years in the service of the Chinese Empire.

That remained the position of affairs, perfectly satisfactory to this country and other countries on the Continent, until May 9, 1906, when an Imperial Edict appeared appointing two distinguished Chinese officials to be Administrators-General of the Customs, with control over all Chinese and foreigners in the Customs Service. Naturally that move on the part of the Chinese Government created a considerable feeling of alarm on the part of those interested in this matter, and, not unnaturally, a perfect avalanche of questions descended on the head of the Secretary of State in another place. There was also a debate in this House, in which the then Under-Secretary was enabled to inform your Lordships that His Majesty's Government were pressing for an assurance that the authority of the Inspector-General should be in no way interfered with. Shortly after that an assurance was given stating that the Imperial Edict did not make any change in the administration of the Customs Service. That assurance, however, was never really circulated, although Sir Robert Hart was authorised to inform the Customs Service some months afterwards—in September, 1906—on the authority of the Administrators-General, that the work was to proceed as before and the staff remain in the same relation to the Inspector-General as before the issue of the Edict.

An assurance has very little weight in China as compared with an Imperial Edict; and, as The Times correspondent in Peking has on several occasions pointed out, the Administrators-General, or the Board of Control as they came to be known, were issuing orders in every one of which they repeated the words "in accordance with the Imperial Edict"; and it soon became apparent that the Board of Control were beginning to take considerable hold over the Customs Service. That at first did not appear to be of any great moment, for Sir Robert Hart naturally had such immense influence and was so respected on all hands in China that one could be perfectly certain that his authority would remain unimpaired. But it was found that the Customs Service, by being severed from its connection with the Wai-wu-pu, of which till then it was a department, lost a certain amount of authority and standing in its intercourse with Chinese officials. In April, 1908, Sir Robert Hart left Peking on leave of absence, and Sir Robert Bredon was put temporarily in charge of the Customs Service. With Sir Robert Hart's retirement from Peking the Board of Control naturally took the opportunity to strengthen their hold over the Customs, and that, I think, is more or less continuing up to the present time. Recently Sir Robert Bredon retired from the appointment of acting Inspector-General, and Mr. Aglen was appointed in his place, but on retiring Sir Robert Bredon was forthwith added to the Board of Control. I venture to think that by that appointment the whole character of the Board of Control was completely changed.

Recently Sir Robert Bredon retired from his position on the Board of Control, and His Majesty's Government have now a favourable opportunity—one, perhaps, that will never recur—in view of the appointment of a new Inspector-General and of the Board of Control returning to its original composition, of pressing the Chinese Government to make the Inspector-Generalship absolute over the personnel and finances of the Customs Service—as absolute as it was before the issue of the Imperial Edict of 1906. By so doing I believe His Majesty's Government would not only ensure the safety of British and foreign capital, but would also maintain the financial stability of China herself. I venture to hope that His Majesty's Government will be able to give such information to the House as will satisfy the natural anxiety which is growing on this matter, and that they will endeavour not only to get an assurance from the Chinese Government, but an Imperial. Edict so that there shall be not the slightest doubt as to the absolute control of the Inspector-General over the Imperial Maritime Customs Service.

THE EARL OF CREWE

My Lords, in the latter part of his speech the noble Earl seemed to imply that by the creation on May 9, 1906, of this Board of Control or, as I think it is more technically called, Revenue Council, some important change took place in the relations of the Imperial Maritime Customs Service to the Chinese Government, but, as a matter of fact, the changes resulting from the creation of that Council have so far been purely changes of form, departmental changes, because the relations of the Inspector-General to the Council are, exactly the same as those which formerly existed between him and the Wai-wu-pu. The noble Earl has stated what the Revenue Council is. When that Council was created its chief member conveyed an assurance to Sir Robert Hart that the only changes which were involved in its creation related to the manner in which the ordinary reports were to be sent in and to other purely routine matters.

Then the noble Earl spoke of the changes in the personnel of the Revenue Council. It of course is common knowledge that Sir Robert Bredon became for a short time a member of the Council, but he has since then, as the noble Earl knows, resigned that appointment, and therefore I do not know that anything special arises out of that. When the Council was created His Majesty's Government entered a protest against its creation because they were quite content with the relations as they existed at the time between the Chinese Foreign Office and the Customs, and they received a written official assurance from the Chinese Government that the existence of the Revenue Council was to make no change in the Customs administration laid down in the Loan Agreements of 1896 and 1898. Sir Robert Hart issued, by direction of the Revenue Council itself, the circular of September, 1906, to the members of the Customs Service, stating that the two Controllers had explained to him that work was to proceed as before the institution of the Council, and that they had authorised him to announce that the Inspector-General would have the same relations with the Revenue Council as he had had with the Wai-wu-pu, that his duties would continue to follow the same lines, and that the officials would work as heretofore and remain in the same relation to the Inspector-General.

It was naturally important that this circular should receive publicity, and His Majesty's Minister at Peking arranged with the Chinese Government that the Revenue Council should officially forward it to the Wai-wu-pu in order that they might authorise the Council to instruct Sir Robert Hart to publish it in the Customs "Quarterly Gazette," which is the regular organ for making announcements and which is circulated and published both in Chinese and in English. In those circumstances, and in view of the fact that no specific instances of interference on the part of the new Board with the Inspector-General have been brought to the notice of the Foreign Office, there does not seem to be, as matters stand at present, any means for addressing further representations to the Chinese Government with regard to the position of the Board. I did not hear the noble Earl say anything about Papers. As a matter of fact, I am informed that there are no Papers of any public interest on the subject since last we laid Papers in 1906. In those circumstances I hope the noble Earl will not ask for Papers.

THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE

My Lords, I think the House is indebted to my noble friend for having brought this matter before our attention. If I may be permitted to say so, he did so in a speech characterised by great clearness and evidently careful study of the intricacies of the question. It is of vital importance to this country that the work done by Sir Robert Hart should be continued and should not have been performed in vain. I was under the impression— though I am bound to say that my knowledge of these matters is not very recent—that there had been continual attempts on the part of the Chinese Government to set up a Chinese Commission composed of Chinese officials, in a position which would have impaired the authority of the official at the head of the Board of Customs. That was, unless I am mistaken, the real source of contention between His Majesty's Government and the Chinese Government. Now it is quite clear that any arrangement of the kind would be a violation of those pledges and assurances which my noble friend recited during the course of his speech. I am glad to gather from the statement of the noble Earl that His Majesty's Government are, upon the whole, satisfied that this Revenue Council is not intended to usurp functions which did not belong to it before. That, as far as it goes, is satisfactory, but what I did not gather from the noble Earl, and what I cannot help thinking my noble friend desired to elicit, is this. Sir Robert Bredon has resigned, and what he would like to know is whether he is to be replaced by a British official who will be in the same position in relation to the Revenue Council.

THE EARL OF CREWE

I have no information on that point. But I think it was stated by the Chinese Government that Sir Robert Bredon's appointment was of a purely honorary character.