Lords Sitting of 30 March 1909

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Standing Order No. XXXIX considered (according to order), and suspended for this day's sitting.
CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 2) BILL.
Brought from the Commons; read 1a: Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) Bill read 2a (The Lord Hamilton of Dalzell): Committee negatived: Bill read 3a, and passed.

COMMISSION.
The following Bills received the Royal Assent—

Consolidated Fund (No. 2).

Zetland Masonic Sick and Widows and Orphans Fund Order Confirmation.

WORKSOP WATER BILL. [H.L.]
Reported from the Select Committee [yesterday (Monday)] with amendments.
BRIGHTON CASINO AND MARINE PALACE BILL. [H.L.]
The Chairman of Committees informed the House that the Promoters do not intend to proceed further with the Bill: Order of the Day for the Second Reading, discharged: Ordered that the Bill be not further proceeded with.
GREAT YARMOUTH CORPORATION BILL. [H.L.]
The King's consent signified, and Bill reported from the Select Committee, with amendments.
DURHAM (COUNTY) ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY BILL. [H.L.]
Reported from the Select Committee, with amendments.
BUNGAY WATER BILL. [H.L.]
  DONINGTON WATER BILL. [H.L.]
    WELLS GAS BILL. [H.L.]
    Reported, with amendments.
    WELLS GAS BILL. [H.L.]
      UNITED KINGDOM TEMPERANCE AND GENERAL PROVIDENT INSTITUTION BILL. [H.L.]
        LONDON AND SOUTH WESTERN RAILWAY BILL. [H.L.]
        Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.

DUNOON BURGH BILL. [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (THE EARL OF ONSLOW):The noble Lord, Lord Avebury, who has given notice that he wishes to move an Instruction to the Committee to which this Bill is referred is not in his place to-day, and therefore I shall not propose to refer the Bill to a Committee at once. It can stand over until the noble Lord is in his place and able to move the Instruction.
Moved, That the Bill be now read 2a.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH:Would the noble Earl the Chairman of Committees inform the House whether there has been any other communication on the subject? The notice which Lord Avebury has placed on the Paper—
"In the event of the Bill being read a second time, the Lord Avebury to move, That it be an instruction to the Committee to which the Bill is referred to leave out Clauses 9 to 12,"
seems to me a most extraordinary one, and does not appear to refer to the correct clauses of the Bill. Perhaps we can be told what the form of the Motion is which it is the intention of Lord Avebury to move.
THE EARL OF ONSLOW:I am sure the noble Lord will agree that I am not responsible for anything that may appear on the Paper in the name of Lord Avebury. I telegraphed to him to-day calling his attention to exactly what the noble Lord opposite has pointed out, and I hope that when the Notice is again placed on the Paper it will be in correct form.
On Question, Bill read 2a.

MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (QUALIFICATION OF CLERGYMEN) BILL. [H.L.]
A Bill to remove the disqualification of Clerks in Holy Orders and other ministers

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of religion as municipal councillors—Was presented by The Lord Monkswell; read 1a, and to be printed. (No. 22.)

CRUELTY TO ANIMALS BILL. [H.L.]
A Bill to prohibit the hunting, coursing, and shooting of animals which have been kept in confinement—Was presented by The Lord Bishop of Hereford; read 1a, and to be printed. (No. 23.)
THAMES TUNNEL (NORTH AND SOUTH WOOLWICH) BILL.
  LITTLEHAMPTON GAS BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.

THE NAVY.
THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE:My Lords, I greatly regret to inform your Lordships that, owing to the death of a very near relative, my noble friend Lord Cawdor [who had a Motion on the Paper to call attention to the statement of the First Lord of the Admiralty explanatory of the Navy Estimates, and to move for Papers] is unable to be in his place this evening. In those circumstances, considering the great personal interest which Lord Cawdor takes in the subject to which he intended to refer, and his exceptional knowledge of it, we felt that the discussion might well be postponed until a future period. Lord Cawdor desired me particularly to convey to the House an expression of his great regret at being unavoidably compelled to occasion a great deal of inconvenience to some of your Lordships.
THE LORD PRIVY SEAL AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (THE EARL OF CREWE):My Lords, I have to thank the noble Marquess for giving me notice early in the day that it would be impossible for the noble Earl to proceed with his Motion. I need not say that we deeply regret the cause of the noble Earl's absence, and sympathise with him in his bereavement. I entirely agree that, owing to the unique position which on this particular subject the noble Earl occupies in your Lordships' House, the noble Marquess has exercised a wise discretion in not proceeding with the Motion to-day.
LORD ELLENBOROUGH,who had the following Motion on the Paper—
"To move for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire and report as to what number and descriptions of men-of-war could be commenced at short notice in public and private shipbuilding yards in Great Britain and Ireland; what time it would take to complete them with guns, gull-mountings, and all other necessary fittings; what men-of-war now building could have their construction accelerated; what docks capable of docking damaged Dreadnoughts on our eastern coasts are being built or are already in existence; what steps might be taken to increase their number; and how many large docks are in existence or being built on the coasts of the other countries that border on the North Sea,"
said: My Lords, with your Lordships' permission I propose, in consequence of the unfortunate absence of Lord Cawdor, to defer the Motion standing in my name.

A WAR OFFICE RETURN.
VISCOUNT MIDLETON:My Lords, I rise to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War a Question of which I have given him private notice. It will be in the recollection of some of your Lordships that a little more than three months ago a Return was ordered as to the state of the Army, the Special Reserve, and the Territorial Forces on January 1. Your Lordships were encouraged to hope that the Return would be available on the reassembling of Parliament, but we are still without the Return. We are now within two days of the adjournment for the Easter holidays, and I hope that the noble Lord will do his best to circulate the Return tomorrow at the latest, in order that it may be possible to place a Notice on the Order Paper before your Lordships adjourn.
THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (LORD LUCAS):My Lords, I regret that there has been this delay in presenting the Return which was asked for at the end of last session. The Motion was placed on the Order Paper on one day and taken the next day. I did not get an opportunity of consulting my military advisers on the question until later, and I now regret to say that I was unaware of the fact that it had never been the practice—the noble Viscount himself constantly refused to supply them—to give mobilisation figures when they were asked for. I unwittingly agreed to give the Return, which includes certain mobilisation figures; but I now fear that it is not in the public

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interest to give those figures. I shall be glad, however, to supply the figures confidentially to the noble Earl, Lord Erroll, who moved for the Return, and also to the noble Viscount. But I am extremely sorry to have to tell the House at this late date that it is not possible for the mobilisation figures to be publicly given. All the other figures asked for are ready to be printed at once, and I trust the noble Lords will have them in their possession before the Easter recess.
VISCOUNT MIDLETON:I do not for a moment press the noble Lord for any figures which the Government consider it undesirable to give, but I think we might have been informed some weeks ago that there was a difficulty in presenting the figures asked for. I have ventured to press the noble Lord and the Secretary of State privately to let us have the Return, and this is the first I have heard of there being any difficulty on the ground of public interest in giving it. The other figures we should have been glad to have had some time ago.
THE EARL OF ERROLL:Having asked for this Return in the first instance, I have mentioned the matter to the noble Lord two or three times, and he has always informed me that the Return would be ready in a week or two. This is the first I have heard of there being any difficulty in presenting the mobilisation figures. Like the noble Viscount I do not wish to have published any information which it is undesirable in the public interest should be given, but I would be very glad if the
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noble Lord would let us have the other figures asked for as soon as possible.

PRIVATE AND PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION BILLS.
THE EARL OF ONSLOW:My Lords, the Motion standing in my name regarding Private and Provisional Order Confirmation Bills is one usually moved before the recess, in order that the adjournment of the House may not interfere with the progress of private Bills.
Moved, that Standing Orders Nos. 92 and 93 be suspended; and that the time for depositing petitions praying to be heard against Private and Provisional Order Confirmation Bills, also the time for depositing documents relating to any Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899, which would otherwise expire during the adjournment of the House at Easter, be extended to the first day on which the House shall sit after the recess.—(The Earl of Onslow.)
On Question, Motion agreed to.

BRIGHTON CASINO AND MARINE PALACE BILL. [H.L.]
Report of the Board of Trade respecting: Laid before the House (pursuant to Order of this day), and to be printed. (No. 24.)
House adjourned at twenty-five minutes before Five o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.