Lords Sitting of 17 November 1908

BARON KILMAINE.
Report made from the Lord Chancellor that the right of John Edward Deane, Baron Kilmaine in the Peerage of Ireland to vote at the elections of Representative Peers for Ireland has been established to the satisfaction of the Lord Chancellor; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  TREATY SERIES No. 28. (1908.)
  Agreement and protocol between the United Kingdom and Germany with regard to sleeping sickness; signed at London, 27th October, 1908.

  TRADE REPORTS (ANNUAL SERIES).
  No. 4166. Portugal (Angola).
  No. 4167. Morocco (Tangier).
  No. 4168. Netherlands (Commerce and Finance).
  No. 4169. Cuba (Budget, 1908–1909).
  No. 4170. Western Pacific (Friendly Islands).

  MISCELLANEOUS SERIES.
  No. 669. France (Chemical, Metal, and Mining Industries of Lyons Consular District).
  Presented (by command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  POLLING DISTRICTS (COUNTY OF DURHAM).
  Order made by the council of the county of Durham, constituting a new polling district for the township of Hedley Hope, in the north-western Parliamentary division of the county.

  UNEMPLOYED WORKMEN ACT, 1905 (REGULATIONS MADE BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD).
  Supplemental regulations amending the Regulations Organisation for Unemployed, 1905, so far as regards the conditions under which an application
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  may be entertained by a distress committee.
  Regulations rescinding the supplemental regulations and making further regulations for the like purpose.

  BANK OF ENGLAND.
  Return of the amount of notes issued more than forty years and outstanding on 28th October 1908, which have been written off.
  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  COLLEGE CHARTER ACT, 1871.
  Application received from the University College of Bristol for the establishment of a University in Bristol, referred by His Majesty in Council for the consideration and report of a committee of His Majesty's Most Honourable Privy Council; together with the draft of the charter applied for.
  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and to be printed. (No. 226.)

LOCAL REGISTRATION OF TITLE (IRELAND) AMENDMENT BILL.
LORD ATKINSON: My Lords, I beg to move, in respect of this Bill, the Motion standing in my name on the Paper. That portion of the Standing Order which I ask your Lordships to dispense with did not contemplate the case of an autumn session. I desire the Standing Order suspended to enable me to put down for Second Reading this Bill, the object of which is to amend the Local Registration of Title (Ireland) Act, 1891, by providing that omission to register may be rectified in certain cases.
Moved, "To dispense with so much of Standing Order No. XXXVIII as provides that the eight sitting days notice of Second Reading required when a Bill brought from the House of Commons has remained on the Table of this House for twelve sitting days without any Lord giving notice of the Second Reading thereof shall not be given notice after the first day of August."—(Lord Atkinson.)
On Question, Motion agreed to, and ordered accordingly.

LOCAL AUTHORITIES (ADMISSION OF THE PRESS) BILL.
Report of Amendments received.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE moved an Amendment in Clause 1, subsection (2)—
(2) "Notwithstanding anything contained in subsection (1) any local authority may make regulations as to the accommodation to be provided for representatives of the Press, and the manner in which the same is to be allotted; but no such regulations shall enable such local authorities to exclude the representatives of any newspaper on the ground of its opinions, or on the ground of any reports or comments published by such newspaper or through the agency of such representatives,"—
to insert, before the word "accommodation," the word "reasonable." This, he explained, was little more than a drafting Amendment.
Amendment moved—
"In page 1, line 14, after the word 'the' to insert the word 'reasonable.'"—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREnext moved an Amendment providing that this accommodation for the Press should be allotted "regard being had to the number of the representatives for whom accommodation is likely to be required and the size of the room in which the meetings of the local authority are held." This Amendment was merely explanatory.
Amendment movod—
"In page 1, line 16, after the word 'allotted' to insert the words 'regard being had to the number of the representatives for whom accommodation is likely to be required, and the size of the room in which the meetings of the local authority are held.'"—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNregarded the Amendment as mere surplusage. Every authority had "regard" to the number of the representatives of the Press and they found all the reasonable accommodation that the size of the room would admit. He would not, however, oppose the Amendment, as it was his intention subsequently to move to omit the subsection altogether.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN moved to omit the whole of amended subsection (2). He pointed out that this provision was merely enacting what was already done in every public and council meeting at the present time. As the subsection originally stood, a local authority would have been compelled to find accommodation without any regard to the size of the room; nothing was said which would have prevented the necessity of increasing the size of the room if the number of Pressmen requiring to be admitted rendered that course necessary. The insertion of the words "reasonable accommodation," however, met that to a certain extent; but it merely set down in words what was now done by every local authority. He saw no need to make a statutory regulation on the subject, as there had been no complaint except this unknown case from somewhere in Wales.
Amendment moved—
"In page 1, lines 13 to 20, to leave out subsection (2)."—(The Earl of Camperdown.)
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREsaid the case from Wales was not an unknown case, but represented the decision of one Judge confirmed by three Judges in the Court of Appeal. The subsection in question was not drafted by the promoters of the Bill; it was inserted at the request of the London County Council, who, presumably, knew something of the needs of the county councils as affected by this Bill. He would regret to see the subsection struck out, as it had been agreed to by the promoters to meet the special circumstances as they existed in London. He would not press his objection to the Amendment, however, for the reason that the subsection was not part of the original Bill.
LORD ALLENDALEsaid the subsection was inserted in Standing Committee in the other House for the reason given by Lord Donoughmore, and it seemed to the Local Government Board to be on the whole a convenient and useful provision. In some cases more representatives of the Press might seek admission than could well be accommodated, and this difficulty could be got over under the subsection by making regulations on the subject. Without some such provision it might happen that where more Pressmen applied for admission than could be

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accommodated, the early comers would claim the seats and this might lead to difficulties. He could not see any reason why the subsection should be deleted, but if Lord Donoughmore did not press his objection to the Amendment, he (Lord Allendale) would not be prepared to do so.
LORD BELPERsaid the Bill provided for the admission of representatives of the Press to the meetings of all local authorities. He questioned whether that was a desirable enactment; but, if Parliament adopted the principle, he maintained that the accommodation should be of such a character that the representatives of the Press would be able to give a sufficient and adequate report of the proceedings. It seemed to him that the two things hung together. He would not have been surprised if his noble friend, Lord Camperdown, had moved to omit the whole of the Bill, but he failed to see the reason for rejecting subsection (2) if the principal provision were agreed to.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE moved to insert a new subsection requiring that three clear days at least before any meeting of the local authority, notice of the time and place of the intended meeting and of the business proposed to be transacted thereat, signed by the clerk or other responsible officer, should be fixed in some conspicuous place on or near the outer door of the place of meeting of the local authority; provided that this subsection should not apply as respects any meeting of a local authority of which not less than three clear days public notice was required by any statute or regulation to be given. He said the provision in the Amendment as to the giving of three clear days notice was identical with that in the Schedule of the Municipal Corporations Act, 1882, and Section 232 of the same Act specified where the notice was to be fixed. The Local Government Act of 1888, Section 75, applied those provisions of the Municipal Corporations Act to county councils. Therefore by the second part of his Amendment those authorities which were already under this obligation were excepted. If the Press were to be at liberty to attend the meetings of local
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authorities, it was not unreasonable that they should have some means of knowing when those meetings were to take place. Their Lordships had decided that it was not desirable that notices of the meetings should be actually sent to the Press, but he submitted that a notice as to time and place of the intended meeting should be fixed in some conspicuous place.
Amendment moved—
"In page 1, line 20, after the word 'representatives,' to insert the following new subsection: '(3) Three clear days at least before any meeting of the local authority, notice of the time and place of the intended meeting and of the business proposed to be transacted thereat, signed by the clerk or other responsible officer, shall be fixed in some conspicuous place on or near the outer door of the place of meeting of the local authority. Provided that this subsection shall not apply as respects any meeting of a local authority of which not less than three clear days public notice is required by any statute or regulation to be given.'"—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNwas sorry to appear to be continually opposing his noble friend's proposals. But did this Amendment come within the purview of the Bill? The object of the measure was—
"To provide for the admission of representatives of the Press to the meetings of certain local authorities."
That was perfectly clear; but this Amendment gave an instruction to local authorities as to the notice they should give of their meetings. As a matter of fact, only minor authorities would come under the subsection, as the larger bodies were already provided for. He suggested that nothing could be more inconvenient than that a distress committee, for example, should not be able to hold a meeting unless it had given three days previous notice.
LORD ALLENDALEdid not think there was very much in the objection that the Amendment was not within the scope of the Bill. He did not offer any opposition on the part of the Government to the Amendment, as it only extended to the minor authorities the obligation which county councils, town councils, and Metropolitan borough councils were now under.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREthought the answer to the noble Earl's

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contention that the Amendment was outside the purview of the Bill was to be found in the fact that a similar provision was in the Bill before the noble Earl and his friends struck it out.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: Two blacks do not make a white.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMOREsaid their Lordships need have no anxiety with regard to the Amendment being in order, as the original provision relating to the giving of notice had withstood the fire which was always directed against measures from that point of view in the other House. If everything in a Bill had to be covered by the title, he thought the noble Earl, with all his skill as a draftsman, would experience difficulty in finding titles for all the Bills that passed through their Lordships' House.
LORD BELPERsaid that, personally, he had no objection to the Amendment, as county councils were not only obliged under the present law to give notice of their meetings, but invariably sent an agenda to the representatives of the Press who regularly attended their meetings.
On Question, Amendment negatived.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE moved to insert a clause providing that nothing in the Bill should be construed so as to prohibit a local authority from admitting the public to its meetings. He explained that the object of this Amendment was to redeem a pledge he had given in Committee. He noticed that Lord Belper had on the Paper an Amendment to this Amendment to add to the new clause the words "and, subject to the accommodation available, the public shall have the right of admission to meetings of local authorities at all times when the Press is admitted to such meetings under this Act." He was quite willing to accept this addition.
Amendment moved—
"After Clause 4 to insert the following new clause: 'Nothing in this Act shall be construed so as to prohibit a local authority from admitting the public to its meetings.'"—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
LORD BELPERthen moved his Amendment to this Amendment, and ex-
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pressed his satisfaction that the noble Earl in charge of the Bill was prepared to accept it. It was only for the purpose of putting the public in the same position as the Press.
Amendment to the Amendment moved—
"To insert at the end of the proposed new clause the words 'and, subject to the accommodation available, the public shall have the right of admission to meetings of local authorities at all times when the Press is admitted to such meetings under this Act.'"—(Lord Belper.)
On Question, Amendment to the Amendment agreed to.
On Question, Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
Bill to be printed as amended. (No. 227.)
House adjourned at Five o'clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.