Lords Sitting of 7 May 1908

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with: Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 3) [H.L.]. Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 4) [H.L.].
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.
Dublin and South-Eastern Railway Bill, City of Glasgow Bill.—Reported, without amendment.
Bromley and Crays Gas Bill, Hull and Barnsley Railway Bill, Dartford Gas Bill.—Read 2a, and committed.
Lincoln Corporation Bill.—Read 2a, and committed: The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Orders (No. 1) Bill [H.L.].—Committed.
Tramways Order Confirmation (No. 1) Bill [H.L.] House to be in Committee on Monday next.

PETITIONS.
  SUNDAY CLOSING (SHOPS) BILL [H.L.]
  Petition in favour of; of provost, magistrates, and councillors of borough of Saltcoats; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.

  ALIENS ACT, 1905
  Return of the alien passenger traffic between the United Kingdom and ports in Europe or within the Mediterranean Sea during the three months ended 31st March, 1908, together with the number of expulsion orders made during that period requiring aliens to leave the
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  United Kingdom. Presented (by Command) and ordered to lie on the Table.

  SEA AND COAST FISHERIES FUND (IRLAND) (NON-CONGESTED DISTRICTS).
  Account for the year ended 31st December, 1907. Laid before the House (pursuant to Act) and ordered to lie on the Table.
PORT OF LONDON BILL.
Message from the Commons that they have committed the said Bill to a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons.
COMPANIES (CONSOLIDATION) BILL [H.L.]
  POST OFFICE (CONSOLIDATION) BILL [H.L.]
  A message ordered to be sent to the Commons to acquaint them that this House has come to the following Resolution to which they desire their concurrence, viz., "That it is desirable that the said Bills be referred to a Joint Committee of both Houses of Parliament."

SUNDAY CLOSING (SHOPS) BILL [H.L.]
Order of the Day for the Third Reading read.
LORD AVEBURY: My Lords, as this subject has been before your Lordships several times I think I shall be consulting the convenience of the House by moving the Third Reading in a very few words. Since the Committee Stage there has been rather a lively discussion in the newspapers and some little criticism of the Bill founded really on misapprehension of its provisions. On the other hand, the Bill has been warmly supported by Mr. Stacey, the secretary of the Early Closing Association, by Messrs. Paterson and Benzie, the secretaries of the great Scottish Shopkeepers and Assistants Union, by Mr. Cowell, the president of the National Association of Grocers' Assistants, and by Mr. Ashby, the hon. secretary of the South-East London Sunday Closing of Shops Association; and they all bear out, as they are well able to do from their knowledge of the matter, the assurance which I gave to your Lordships that the shopkeeping community are keenly, and by an overwhelming majority, in favour of the Bill. In these circumstances I should like to make an appeal

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to His Majesty's Government to show a more sympathetic interest in the Bill than they did on the Second Reading, and reconsider their decision to give it no support. In the House of Commons a few days ago the Home Secretary, speaking on a cognate subject, said that nothing which came before the House was of higher importance than questions directly affecting the health of the people, and that if it could be shown that long hours were detrimental to the health of a large portion of the population the State should seek to remedy the evil. This question of the closing of shops and the prohibition of street trading on Sunday is a matter which vitally affects the health and happiness of thousands, and yet the right hon. Gentleman has refused even to receive a deputation upon the subject or to hear what they have to say. Your Lordships will remember that in Committee Lord Oranmore raised a question whether the schedule really carried out our intention, which is that bread and fish as refreshment should be saleable all day, but that, as desired by the bakers and fishmongers themselves, the sale as household stores should cease at 9 a.m. I promised to consider the matter, and Lord Oranmore courteously withdrew his Amendment for the time. I am advised that, legally, the words as they stand carry out what we desire, but that it might be possible, by a slight modification, to make the matter clearer to the lay mind without in any way affecting the sense. I have communicated with Lord Ashbourne, who has taken an interest in the matter, and he is satisfied with the Amendments I have put down and which I shall move after the Third Reading. Meanwhile, I beg to move that the Bill be read a third time.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 3a."—(Lord Avebury.)
On Question, Bill read 3a.
LORD AVEBURY: I now beg to move the Amendments standing in my name.
Amendment moved—
"Schedule 1, page 3, line 16, to leave out the words of refreshments including sweetmeats.'"—(Lord Avebury.)
EARL BEAUCHAMP: My Lords, perhaps it would be convenient if I ex-
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plain that the Government on this occasion will take the same line as they took on the Second Reading and in Committee. They will not attempt to influence your Lordships to vote either for or against the noble Lord's Amendments. A number of difficulties were pointed out on the Second Reading, and, in the opinion of His Majesty's Government, nothing which has happened since has tended to diminish those difficulties; nor has the noble Lord in charge of the Bill seen his way, apparently, to meet the various points mentioned by, for instance, Lord Swaythling. The difficulties which separate those noble Lords are as irreconcilable now as they were then. In these circumstances His Majesty's Government are unable to see their way to afford any facilities for the passing of the Bill this year through the other House. No doubt the noble Lord will have an opportunity next year of bringing the Bill forward once more.
LORD AVEBURY: I can only speak again with the indulgence of your Lordships, but I should like to say that I did not undertake to move any Amendment in the direction desired by Lord Swaythling. What I said was that if Lord Swaythling would bring forward Amendments we would do our best to give them favourable consideration. The only Amendment which the noble Lord did move was to exempt Jews altogether from the operations of the Bill, and that Amendment did not commend itself to your Lordships.
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Amendment moved—
"In Schedule 1, page 3, lines 16 and 17, after the word 'consumption' to insert the words 'and in the course of the trade of supplying refreshments, of bread, fish, vegetables, cooked meat, sweetmeats, and such other articles as are usually dealt in the course of their trade.' "—(Lord Avebury.)
On Question, Amendment agreed to.
Bill passed and sent to the Commons.

COMPANIES (CONSOLIDATION) BILL [H.L.]

  SECOND READING.
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF GRANARD: My Lords, this Bill is intended to reproduce, without alteration, the existing statute law relating to companies in the United Kingdom now contained in the Companies Acts, 1862 to 1907, and certain other amending Acts. Together with the Post Office Bill, to which your Lordships have already given a Second Reading, this Bill will be referred to a Joint Committee of both Houses. I therefore hope your Lordships will give the Bill a Second Reading.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Earl of Granard.)
  On Question, Bill read 2a.
  House adjourned at twenty minutes before Five o'clock, till Tomorrow, half-past Ten o'clock.