Lords Sitting of 26 February 1907

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The Lord Chancellor acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:—Electric Supply Corporation [H.L.]; Great Yarmouth Waterworks and Lowestoft Water and Gas [H.L.]; Midland Railway [H.L.]; Weston-super-Mare Grand Pier [H.L.]
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.
Baine's Name Bill [H.L.]. Presented and read 1a.
Byrne's Divorce Bill [H.L.].—A Bill to dissolve the marriage of Henry Morgan Byrne, Barrister-at-Law, with Edith Laura Byrne, his now wife, and to enable him to marry again; and for other purposes. Presented (on petition), and a copy of the proceedings in and of the decree of the King's Bench Matrimonial Division of the High Court of Justice in Ireland delivered (on oath); Bill read 1a; and to be read 2a on Monday the 11th of March next. The usual Orders made.
Byrne's Divorce Bill [H.L.].—A witness ordered to attend on the Second Reading.
Folkestone, Sandgate, and Hythe Tramways Bill [H.L.].—Read 2a, and committed.
North British Railway Bill [H.L.]; Oxford and District Tramways Bill [H.L.].—Read 2a, and committed. The Comittees to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
West Yorkshire Tramways Bill [H.L.].—Read 2a, and committed.
Selsey Water and Gas Bill [H.L.].—Read 2a (according to order), and committed. The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
Standing Committee.—Ordered, That a Standing Committee be appointed for the consideration of such Public Bills as may be committed to it by the House.
Portobello and Musselburgh Tramways (Port Seton Deviation) Order Confirmation Bill.—Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and (pursuant to the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899) deemed to have been read 2a(The Lord Hamilton of Dalzell) and reported from the Committee. (No. 6.)

NEW BILL.
  COMPANIES ACT (DEBENTURES AND DEBENTURE STOCK) BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the law in regard to Debentures and Debenture Stock. Was presented by the Lord Avebury; real 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Tuesday next. (No. 7.)

  AUSTRALIAN STATES CONSTITUTION BILL [H.L.]
  [SECOND READING.]
  Order of the Day for the Second Reading read.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of ELGIN): My Lords, this Bill is intended to deal with a great complication of legal difficulties, but I think I shall be able to make a short statement to your Lordships which will suffice to induce you to give it a Second Reading. The first Act which I have to mention is the Australian Constitution Act of 1842, which established a Legislative Council for New South Wales, and in that Act there were provisions with regard to the reservation of certain classes of Bills. Bills of three classes were to be reserved—first, those that altered and affected the electoral areas; secondly, those that altered the number of members; and, thirdly, those that altered the salary of the Governor.
  In 1850 another Australian Constitution Act was passed which provided for Legislative Councils in four other Colonies—in Victoria, in Van Dieman's Land as it was then called, in South Australia,

  1395
  and in Western Australia. This Act adopted the provisions in regard to reservation which I have already given, and it also provided that other Bills should be reserved which concerned the election or qualification of Members, and also those which were for the establishment of Legislative Houses in place of the Legislative Councils provided for in the Bill. All the five Colonies that I have named have passed local Constitution Acts. In three cases—in the case of New South Wales, Victoria, and Western Australia—those Acts were confirmed by Imperial Acts, but in Tasmania and South Australia they were not confirmed. The sixth Australian State—Queensland—was dealt with in an Order in Council in 1859, but since then a local Act has been passed which, however, has not been confirmed by an Imperial Act.
  Your Lordships will observe that there are great opportunities of differences of opinion arising out of this complication of legislation, and as a matter of fact questions have continually recurred raising the point of the application of these original provisions for reservation to Bills which have been subsequently passed by the present Legislature, and the difference has been marked between the Imperial Law Officers and the Colonial Law Officers, the Imperial Law Officers holding that this provision still applied and the Colonial Law Officers holding that Bills of a purely electoral character were free from this reservation.
  The Bill which I ask your Lordships to read a second time to-day meets the Colonial view. It proposes to free from reservation, in the second sub-section of Clause 1, all purely Electoral Bills; but it maintains, in the first sub-section of that clause, the reservation of Bills which either alter the Constitution or affect the salary of the Governor. This subject, my Lords, has been discussed very elaborately indeed for four or five years. It has been referred to the Law Officers both of the late Government and of the present Government. It has also been examined by the Law Officers of all the six Australian Colonies, and it is satisfactory to me that I have to submit to your Lordships a Bill which has the assent of all the parties concerned.
  1396
  The last opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown in this country is that they concur in the Bill as it now stands. With regard to the feeling in Australia, I should like to read a telegram which I have received from the Governor of New South Wales, dated January 31st. He says—
  "Referring to my telegram of 12th December, I am desired by Ministers to ask that, as the draft amended Bill endorsed in despatch has been accepted by Governments of States concerned, you will take steps for passing measure into law at early date."
  I do not think that I need say more to recommend the measure to your Lordships, and I ask that the Bill may be given a Second Reading and expedited in its progress.
  Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a."—(The Earl of Elgin.)
  *THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I do not think anyone on this side is likely to offer any objection to the Bill of which the noble Earl has just moved the Second Reading. It is quite clear that legislation is desirable, and the particular proposal before us has, I understand, been circulated to the Colonies concerned and received their unanimous approval. If, therefore, any criticism is to be offered—and I do not suggest that any criticism is necessary—it would clearly be more appropriate at a later stage.
  On Question, Bill read 2a (according to order), and committee to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

  AUSTRALIAN STATES CONSTITUTION BILL [H.L.]
    PALACE OF WESTMINSTER.
    The Earl Beauchamp added to the Select Committee.

    COMMITTEE OF SELECTION.
    The Lords following, viz.—

    M. Ripon (L. Privy Seal)

    E. Camperdown

    V. Churchill

    D. Bedford

    L. Balfour

    D. Northumberland

    L. Ribblesdale

    L. Denman

    M. Lansdowne

    L. Belper

    E. Lauderdale

    L. Brougham and Vaux

    E. Waldegrave

    E. Rosse

    L. Newton

    E. Cawdor

    with the Chairman of Committees, were appointed a Committee to select and propose to the House the names of the Five Lords to form a Select Committee for the consideration of each opposed Private Bill.

    COMMITTEE OF SELECTION FOR THE STANDING COMMITTEE.
    Appointed: the Lords following, with the Chairman of Committees, were named of the Committee:—

    E. Liverpool (L. Steward)

    L. Ribblesdale

    L. Granard (E. Granard)

    E. Jersey

    E. Waldegrave

    L. Kintore (E. Kintore)

    V. Churchill

    L. Balfour

    L. Lawrence

    House adjourned at twenty minutes before Five o'clock, fill To-morrow, a quarter past Four o'clock.