Lords Sitting of 14 June 1904

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificate from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bill have been complied with:—North-Western Electricity and Power Gas.
Also the Certificate that no Standing Orders are applicable to the following Bill:—Land Drainage Provisional Order.
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.
Harrow Road and Paddington Tramways Bill. Reported, with Amendments.
South-Western and Isle of Wight Junction Railway (Extension of Time) Bill. Reported, with an Amendment.
Brymbo Water Bill Read 2ª, and committed.
London and India Docks Company Bill. Read 2ª, and committed. The
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Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
Manchester Ship Canal Bill [H.L.]; King's College Hospital Bill [H.L.]. Read 3ª, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
Education Board Provisional Order (Swansea) Bill; Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 14) Bill; Local Government Provisional Order (No. 15) Bill. Brought from the Commons.
Chesterfield Gas and Water Board Bill [H.L.]. Returned from the Common agreed to, with Amendments
Colney Hatch Gas Bill; Gomersal Gas Bill; North Staffordshire Railway Bill. Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
Water Orders Confirmation Bill [H.L.]: Gas and Water Orders Confirmation Bill [H.L.]. Committed. The Committees to be proposed by the Committer of Selection.
Gas Orders Confirmation (No. 3) Bill [H. L.]. Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.
Scotch Education Department Provisional Order Confirmation (Edinburgh)

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Bill [H.L.]. A Bill to confirm a Provisional Order made by the Scotch Education Department under the Education (Scotland) Act, 1878, to enable the School Board of the Burgh of Edinburgh to put in force the Lands Clauses Acts — Was presented by the Earl Waldegrave (for the Lord Kintore (E. Kintore)).Then it was moved, that the Order of the 14th of March last, "That no Bill originating in this House confirming any Provisional Order or Provisional Certificate shall be read a first time after Tuesday the 3rd day of May next," be dispensed with in respect of the said Bill, and that the Bill be now read 1ª agreed to; Bill read 1ª accordingly; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. (No. 98.)
Education Board Provisional Order (Swansea) Bill (No. 99). Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 14) Bill (No. 100). Local Government Provisional Order (No. 15) Bill (No. 101). Read 1a, to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.

RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  MISCELLANEOUS (NO.1), 1904.
  Papers respecting the local taxation of personal property in certain Foreign Countries and British Possessions. Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  POST OFFICE SAVINGS BANKS.
  Accounts of all deposits received and paid during the year ended 31st December, 1903; and of the sums received and paid by the National Debt Commissioners on account of the fund for the Post Office Savings Banks in the same year. Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  ARUNDEL PORT.
  Account and Report for 1902 –1903. Delivered (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  Seamen's and Soldiers' False Characters Bill [H.L]. Reported from the Standing Committee without Amendment, and to be read 3 on Thursday next.

NAVAL AND MILITARY MEDALS BILL [H.L.]
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the day for the Second Reading read.
THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Earl of DONOUGHMORE): My Lords, this is a short Bill, of which only one clause is operative. Your Lordships will remember that under the Uniforms Act of 1894 a penalty is imposed upon persons who without authority wear His Majesty's uniform for any purpose, or any colourable imitation of it. The object of this Bill is to apply the same provisions to those who without authority wear medals or other colourable imitations of such decorations. It is obvious that medals awarded for good service to the country should not be improperly worn. I beg to move the Second Reading.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a,—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
On Question, Bill read 2a,, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

RESERVWE FORCES BILL [H.L.]
[SECOND READING.]
Order of the day for the Second Reading read.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: My Lords, the first object of this Bill is to facilitate the residence of Reservists in India and the Colonies. Some 3,000 Reservists are now living in India and the Colonies, but at present we have absolutely no hold on them whatever. We have no power of compelling them to return to the colours in the case of mobilization. This Bill gives legal sanction to their living in the Colonies, and also provides the necessary machinery for enforcing liability for service while they are residing aboard. It also authorises direct enlistment into the Reserve in India and the Colonies. Your Lordships are aware that we now enlist certain classes of men into the Reserve direct, such as employees in the Post Office, employees under railway companies, and other people possessing

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technical knowledge; the Government of India are anxious to have facilities given to them to enlist into the Reserve direct in India, and the Colonial Office are anxious that they should have the same power in the Crown Colonies.
The object of Clause 2 is to amend Section 14 of the Reserve Forces Act of 1882. This section prohibits the appointment or transference of a Reservist to a corps which is not in the arm or branch in which he previously served, and Clause 2 provides that these words shall be repealed. The provision, as it exists, is not of any great service to the man in helping him to get back to the unit in which he served whilst he was in the Army, but at the same time it considerably hampers the authorities on mobilisation. Take, for instance, the Remount Department. This department, which is a very small one in time of peace, is necessarily a large department in the time of war, and, properly, it should be filled up in war by Reservists from the Army Service Corps. But practically the whole of the Reservists of the Army Service Corps will be required in the time of war as drivers. Consequently we have no nucleus left from which to fill the Remount Department in time of war. We are practically certain to have a very large number of Cavalry Reservists who would be available in time of war, and it would be no hardship whatever to ask them to serve in the Remount Department if for the moment we did not want them in the Cavalry. We shall, of course, make sure that no man will suffer pecuniary loss by such transfer. That is practically the whole of the Bill, and I ask your Lordships to read it a second time.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2a,."—(The Earl of Donoughmore.)
LORD MONKSWELL: My Lords, from the explanation of the noble Earl the Under-Secretary, I take it that Clause 1 does not expressly allow any self-governing colony direct enlistment into the Reserve, and has nothing to do with transfer from the Army to the Reserve.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: That is so.
LORD MONKSWELL: Under this Bill a man may have liberty to reside in Canada, and I suppose in that case it would not be necessary for him to come over to England to be transferred to the Reserve. He may be transferred in Canada. I confess that Clause 2 of this Bill raises points of very considerable difficulty. The noble Earl said that the object of this clause was to do away with the necessity for a man's consent before he can be transferred to a corps which is not in the arm or branch in which he previously served. The object was, he explained, to enable cavalrymen to be compulsorily put into the Remount Department. I do, not know that cavalrymen would have any objection to that; but the clause goes a great deal further. A cavalryman might be put in the Infantry, or the Artillery, or any other branch of the service. If the object stated by the noble Earl is the only object, it should be so set out, and the Bill should be so limited. The Army is not very popular now. There is difficulty in securing enlistment, and I do not think it will conduce to the increased popularity of the Army if a man on joining knows that when he goes into the Reserve, and is called out on active service, he may be compelled to go into some branch of the Army in which he did not wish to serve. I think this clause in one direction goes too far, and in another does not go far enough. It says that this repeal of the power of a man to choose whether he will go into a corps which is not in the arm or branch in which he previously served shall not, without his consent, affect any man belonging to the Army Reserve at the date of the passing of this Act. I think your Lordships should go a good deal further than that if you do not want to get into difficulties with men already in the Army. Take the case of a man who has enlisted under the impression that when he got into the Army Reserve he would be able to remain in the same branch of the service in which he had enlisted, if he chose to do so. Now you take away that choice, and he may

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say he has been enlisted under false pretences. If Clause 2 is to pass at all, it should only be made to affect persons who enlist after the passing of the Act. The clause itself seems to me to be injudicious, except in so far as it may be absolutely necessary, because it will tend, I am afraid, to make the Army unpopular. I hope that when the Bill gets into Committee, the noble Earl in charge of it will consider my objections to Clause 2.
THE EARL OF DONOUGHMORE: I am glad my noble friend recognises that the points he has raised are obviously Committee points. I certainly shall be very glad to discuss them in Committee with him. The main point that has compelled us to bring forward the Bill is that the present system is too inelastic, and we want to remedy that.
On Question, Bill read 2a, committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.

MARRIED WOMEN'S PROPERTY ACT (1882) AMENDMENT BILL [H.L.]
[SECOND READING].
Order of the day for the Second Reading read.
THE LORD CHANCELLOR (The Earl of HALSBUBY): My Lords, the object of this Bill is to meet a defect in the main Act which has been discovered by some ingenious person. The question has been raised whether a married woman, when not acting as a married woman, but simply as a trustee, is free from the control of her husband. This Bill makes it perfectly clear that a married woman's position under the main Act is not altered when she acts as a trustee.
Moved, "That the Bill be now read 2ª."—(The Lord Chancellor.)
On Question, Bill read 2ª, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.
House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half-past Ten o'clock.