Lords Sitting of 7 May 1903

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House, That the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificates from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:—
Charing Cross, Euston, and Hampstead Railway; City and South London Railway.
Also the Certificates that no Standing Orders are applicable to the following Bills:—
Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 1); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 3).
And also the Certificates that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bills have been complied with:—
Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 2); Local Government Provisional Order (Housing of the Working Classes).
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.
Report from, That the Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the Petitions for additional Provisions in the following Bills ought to be dispensed with, and leave given to the Committees on the Bills to insert the additional Provisions, viz.:—
North-Western Electricity and Power Gas [H.L.]; Salford Corporation [H.L.]; Hove, Worthing, and District Tramways [H.L.]
That the Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the Baker Street and Waterloo Railway (Extension of Time) Bill ought to be dispensed with.
That the further Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the Maidstone

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Gas Bill ought to be dispensed with, and the Bill allowed to proceed:
Read and agreed to.
Fife Electric Power Bill [H.L.]. Report from the Select Committee, That the Committee had not proceeded with the consideration of the Bill, the Opposition thereto having been withdrawn; read, and ordered to lie on the Table: The orders made on the 12th of March and Thursday last discharged, and Bill committed.
Bangor Corporation Bill [H.L.] Petition for additional provision; of the Corporation of Bangor; together with the proposed Amendments annexed thereto; read, and referred to the Examiners.
Southampton Harbour Bill [H.L.] The King's consent signified; and Bill reported, with Amendments.
Poole and District Electric Traction Bill [H.L.]; Reported with Amendments.
Birmingham Corporation Bill [H.L.] Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
Hastings Harbour District Railway Bill [H.L.] Report from the Select Committee, That the Committee had not proceeded with the consideration of the Bill, the opposition thereto having been withdrawn; read, and ordered to lie on the Table: The orders made on the 19th of March and the 30th of April last discharged; and Bill committed.
Pontypridd Urban District Council Bill [H.L.]; Taff Vale Railway Bill [H.L.]; London and North-Western Railway Bill [H.L.]; Aston Manor Improvement Bill [H.L.]; Macclesfield and District Electric Tramways Bill [H.L.]; Torquay Corporation Water Bill [H.L.]; Rochester Corporation Tramways and Improvements Bill [H.L.]; Chatham and District Light Railways Bill [H.L.]; Brighton Corporation Bill [H.L.]; Bury and District Joint Water Board Bill [H.L.].
Report from the Committee of Selection, That the Lord Redesdale be proposed to the House as a member of the
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Select Committee on the said Bills in the place of the Viscount Powerscourt; read, and agreed to.
Ipswich Gas Bill; Burgess Hill and St. John's Common Gas Bill; London Hydraulic Power Bill; Sutton District Water Bill; Winchester Water and Gas Bill. Read 2a, and committed.
Wellington (Salop) Gas Bill [H.L.]; I Frinton-on-Sea Sea Defences Bill [H.L.]; Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 2) Bill; Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway Order Confirmation Bill. Brought from the Commons.
Great Eastern Railway Bill; Great Northern Railway Bill. Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.
Lanarkshire and Ayrshire Railway Order Confirmation Bill. Read 1a; to be printed, and (pursuant to the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899), deemed to have been read 2a—The Lord Balfour), and reported from the Committee. (No. 55.)
Local Government (Ireland) Provisional Order (No. 2) Bill. Read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. (No. 56.)

PETITIONS.
  DECLARATION OF THE SOVEREIGN AGAINST TRANSUBSTANTIATION.
  Petition for abrogation of; of Roman Catholics residing in Great Grimsby, Lincolnshire; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
  LAND REGISTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
  Petition for amendment of; of the Aberdeen Corporation; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  EDUCATION (SCOTLAND).
  Code of Regulations for Continuation Classes, 1903.
  RAILWAY RETURNS (PRELIMINARY STATEMENT).
  Return relating to the railways of the United Kingdom for the year 1902; with comparative figures for the years 1900 and 1901.

  ARMY (CANTEENS AND REGIMENTAL INSTITUTES).
  Evidence taken before the Committee on Canteens and Regimental Institutes.
  Presented [by Command], and ordered to lie on the Table.

  NAVAL FORCES BILL.
  Read 3a [according to Order], and passed.

  BERWICKSHIRE COUNTY TOWN BILL.
  [THIRD READING.]
  Moved, That the Bill be now read 3a—(Lord Balfour of Burleigh.)
  THE EARL OF WEMYSS: Before this Bill is read a third time I should like to ask the noble Lord a question. I have no doubt he has explained the measure, but I missed his explanation. I should like to know why Greenlaw is to cease to be the head burgh or county town of Berwickshire, and why Duns is to take its place. I suppose the latter town is more prominent now than it used to be, but will not the change involve considerable expense to the ratepayers? I presume that buildings will have to be erected at Duns for county purposes. I should like some explanation on the point.
  THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Lord BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH): This Bill passed your Lordships' House last session and the session before, and on the first of these occasions I gave generally the reasons for this change. Until this year the Bill had not passed the other House of Parliament, but this year it originated in the House of Commons and it has passed through that chamber without opposition. Every authority in the county that has communicated with me is in favour of the change, including
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  the County Council. They have been most anxious for it for several years, and the Member of Parliament for the county supports the Bill. My noble friend Lord Tweedmouth is also desirous that this change shall be made. Greenlaw is a small place of some 200 or 300 inhabitants. It is very much out of the way, and, although it has a county building, it is very inconvenient for the county councillors. The railway communication at Duns is much better; that town is more central, and it is the old capital of the county. I think I can say to your Lordships that everybody in the county who has a right to express an opinion is in favour of this change. In three years I have received no representation against it, and therefore I think your Lordships are safe in passing the Bill.
  On Question, Bill read 3a and passed.

  THE STRANDING OF THE "FIRTH OF FORTH."
  LORD MUSKERRY, who had given notice "To call attention to the case of the second officer of the ss. 'Firth of Forth,' who, at the Board of Trade inquiry into the stranding of this steamer was found to have acted throughout in a careful and intelligent manner, and much impressed the Court by the way in which he gave his evidence, the Court suggesting to the solicitor to the Board of Trade that the Board might very properly reimburse this officer for the legal expenses incurred by him in attending the inquiry; and to ask if this recommendation has been acted upon, and, if not, why not"—said: My Lords, this is a case where Mr. Stobbs, the second officer of the "Firth of Forth," acquitted himself in a most creditable manner, both before the stranding of the vessel and afterwards in giving evidence at the Board of Trade inquiry; in fact, the Court stated that he was the only one who really came out of the inquiry satisfactorily. This inquiry involved the suspension of the certificate of the officer in question, one of the questions submitted by the Board of Trade to the Court being—
  "Was serious damage to the ss. 'Firth of Forth' caused by the wrongful act or fault of the master, chief, or second officers, or any of them?"

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  Therefore this officer, in self-protection, was compelled to secure legal assistance in order to avoid what might have been very serious consequences in the cancellation or suspension of his certificate. He was consequently not only subjected to great anxiety, but to serious expense, which, on the Court's recommendation, should justly be recouped by the Board of Trade, who were the responsible party in detaining him for the inquiry. Masters and officers are readily enough punished, but when meriting encouragement and assistance they generally fail to receive it. I hope to hear that in this case the Board of Trade have acted on the most praiseworthy recommendation of the Court of inquiry, and that an officer who has so ably conducted his duties shall not be allowed to bear the burden of legal expenses incurred in protecting his professional reputation owing to the action of the Board of Trade.
  LORD WOLVERTON: AS this is purely a Departmental question I will content myself with reading the answer of the Board of Trade. "The recommendation referred to by the noble Lord as to reimbursing to the second officer of the steamship 'Firth of Forth' his legal expenses in attending the inquiry held into the stranding of that vessel has not been acted upon. The Board of Trade have no funds out of which they can defray such expenses, and the fact that an officer has acted properly and given his evidence in a straightforward manner would not, in the opinion of the Board of Trade, in itself justify them in making a special application to the Treasury in such a case."

  PROTECTION OF WILD BIRDS IN IRELAND.
  THE EARL OF MAYO: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government why notices with regard to the Wild Birds Preservation Act, Close Season (Ireland), have not been posted up for the last three years on all the Royal Irish Constabulary Barracks in Ireland. It is felt in Ireland that the posting of these notices tends very largely to the preservation of wild birds, as it enables people in out-of-the-way districts to know what the law is. In August, 1901, the noble and learned Lord, the Lord
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  Chancellor of Ireland, replying question which I put to him, said—
  "In July, 1899, my noble friend asked the Irish Government for information with reference to the protection of wild birds, and he was then told that the constabulary were specially and fully instructed by general circular in May, 1899, to enforce the Wild Birds Protection Acts. I believe that has been loyally carried out."
  I therefore beg to ask the Question standing in my name.
  LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGH: I hope the noble Earl will accept the answer from me in the absence of my noble friend who represents the Irish Office. In reply to the Question, the Irish Office say that in May, 1899, the police throughout Ireland were instructed to enforce the Wild Birds Protection Act 1880, as amended by the subsequent Acts of 1881 and 1894. The police, at the same time, were instructed to endeavour to have these statutes obeyed by first warning persons detected of offences against the law, and, where a warning was ineffectual, the facts of the case were to be reported to the local police officers for instructions with a view to the institution of proceedings. Placards were also posted up outside each constabulary barracks informing the public of the danger they would incur by offending against the law. It has not since been considered necessary to renew the posting of these placards. Prosecutions have been undertaken by the police under the provisions of the Act in each year since they were instructed to enforce it. In 1899, six prosecutions were instituted, resulting in two convictions; in 1900, the same number of prosecutions resulted in one conviction; in 1901, three prosecutions were instituted, resulting in three convictions; and in 1902, four prosecutions resulted in four convictions. The police are thoroughly alive to their duties under these Acts, and the Irish Office are not of opinion that the repeating of these notices will make the police more vigilant. At the same time I am asked to add that if the noble Earl who put this Question has any evidence which goes to show that the Act is not strictly enforced and will supply it to the Irish Office, or to Lord Denbigh, who

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  represents that Office in this House, immediate inquiry will be made, because it is the desire of the Office, and they have, they believe, the active co-operation of the police, to see these valuable Acts enforced as thoroughly as possible.
  House adjourned at twenty minutes before Five o'clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten o'clock.