Lords Sitting of 15 July 1902

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS
  FINCHLEY URBAN DISTRICT COUNCIL BILL.
  Report from the Select Committee, That the Committee had not proceeded with the consideration of the Bill, the opposition thereto having been withdrawn; read, and ordered to lie on the Table: The Orders made on 20th of June last and 3rd instant discharged; and Bill committed for Thursday next.
  METROPOLITAN RAILWAY BILL.
  Reported, with Amendments.
  CROYDON AND DISTRICT ELECTRIC, TRAMWAYS BILL.
  Reported, with Amendments.
  EAST WORCESTERSHIRE WATER BILL.
  Read 3a, with the Amendments; a further Amendment made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
  NORTH METROPOLITAN ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLY BILL,
    CLEETHORPES IMPROVEMENT BILL.
    Read 3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  IMPERIAL INSTITUTE BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons, agreed to.
  EDUCATIONAL BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDERS CONFIRMATION (BARNES, ETC.) BILL [H.L.]
  Returned from the Commons, agreed to, with Amendments.
  NORTH BRITISH RAILWAY (GENERAL POWERS) BILL,
    NOTTINGHAM AND RETFORD RAILWAY BILL.
    Returned from the Commons with the Amendments agreed to.
  LONDON COUNTY COUNCIL (GENERAL POWERS) BILL.
  Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
  PIER AND HARBOUR PROVISIONAL ORDER (No. 4) BILL.
  Moved, That the Order made on the 14th day of March last, "That no Provisional Order Confirmation Bill brought from the House of Commons shall be read a second time after Thursday, the 19th day of June next," be dispensed with, and that the Bill be now read 2a; agreed to. Bill read 2a accordingly, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Thursday next.
  ROTHESAY TRAMWAYS (EXTENSION) ORDER CONFIRMATION BILL.
  Read 3a (according to order), and. passed.
  PIER AND HARBOUR PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 3) BILL.
  Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners. (No. 151.)
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.

  INDIA (FAMINE).
  Papers regarding the famine and the relief operations in India during 1900–1902:—

  Vol. I. British Districts.

  Vol. II. Native States.

  Trade Reports:—

  I. Annual Series—

  No. 2851. Germany (Frankfort-On-Main;

  No. 2852. Austria-Hungary;

  No. 2853. Mexico (Vera Cruz):

  II. Miscellaneous Series—

  No. 578. Trade and Economic State of Vilayet of Tripoli during the past forty years.

  QUEEN'S COLLEGE GALWAY.
  Annual Report of the President, for the Session 1901–1902.
  Presented (by Command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  YOUTHFUL OFFENDERS ACT, 1901.
  Summary Jurisdiction Rules, made by the Lord Chancellor of Ireland: Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  SALE OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS (LICENCES) (IRELAND) BILL.
  Reported from the Standing Committee without further Amendment. The Report of the Amendments made in Committee of the Whole House to be received on Thursday next.
  SHOP CLUBS BILL.
  Reported from the Standing Committee with further Amendments. The Report of the Amendments made in Committee of the Whole House, and by the Standing Committee, to be received on Thursday next; and Bill to be printed as amended. (No 150.)

  SOUTH AFRICA—FACILITIES FOR BRITISH SETTLERS.
  THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN, who had given notice "to call attention to the desirability of offering facilities and inducements to British subjects, both male and female, to settle in South Africa; to ask what measures have been adopted towards that end; and to urge that regulations with regard to grants of land, assisted passages, etc., should be officially published throughout the Empire with as little delay as possible," said:—My Lords, I have placed this notice upon your Lordships' Paper because I have received numerous inquiries from persons in England and Scotland asking if I could tell them what are the terms of settlement in the new Colonies in South Africa. There are, I am sure, a great many persons, possessed of small capital, who would be willing to try their fortunes there if they had the opportunity, but it is only cautious and prudent on their part not to make any move until they know the terms of settlement and the chances of obtaining land from the Government when they arrive. I am quite sure there will be no difference of opinion in this House as to the desirability, and, indeed, the importance, of strengthening the British element in the new colonies and especially in the rural districts, for hitherto, even in the older colonies, the tendency has been for the British settlers to concentrate in the towns, and leave the rural life for the most part to the Dutch. Even in such portions of Cape Colony as the north-west, as we know to our cost, there has been a concentration of Dutch influence and of
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  Dutch inhabitants, and the result has been by no means favourable to British supremacy. Now we are entering on a new state of things altogether, and in quite another part of the country. In the Orange Free State, owing to the wise and prudent legislation and the liberal form of Government which existed, there were a certain number of British settlers, and British names will be found in considerable numbers. Among them I might mention, perhaps, Mr. Fraser, who was, at the last election, a candidate for the Presidency of the Orange Free State; and if he had been elected I believe that State would have been in existence at the present time. But in the Transvaal, however, things were quite different. There the object of the Government and the whole tendency of legislation and the administrative action of the Executive were in the direction of diminishing British influence and reducing the number of British settlers. We know what the result was. When the war broke out we had to face an almost united people against us, but now, my Lords, a different state of things has come to pass, and it is because this is a favourable moment for introducing a large British element into South Africa that I venture to bring this before your Lordships as a subject which I believe to be of urgent public importance.
  Up to the present the information I have been able to obtain has been of the most fragmentary character. I know that in both of the new Colonies and also in Rhodesia there are at the present time a large number of private land companies who have issued statements saying that they are prepared to receive British settlers on very favourable terms. Quite independently of that, there is, of course, the British Administration at Pretoria and at Bloemfontein. They have, if they choose to use them, excellent opportunities, and I know that Lord Milner and all those who act with him are extremely anxious to obtain British settlers. My complaint, such as it is, is that it is very difficult to arrive at any trustworthy information on this subject. Indeed, the only extracts I have been able to collect have appeared in the Press since I placed this Question on your Lordships' Paper. One is a Reuter's telegram, dated July 9th, stating that a

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  policy of small farms, in the case of settlers taking up Government land, has been decided upon by Sir H. Goold-Adams, and that the Government have at their disposal thousands of acres, which are increasing by purchase and by the lapse of leases of Government farms. I With regard to Pretoria, a letter appeared in the Standard from that paper's special correspondent, in which it is stated that the Transvaal Land Settlement Board proposes to settle men in small colonies of twenty or thirty; each colony to be composed partly of men of South African experience, and partly of immigrants from Great Britain and the British Colonies. The correspondent goes on to say that the class of settlers desired will be the small capitalist with £300 and farming experience, married men being preferred. Special facilities will be given for the passage of settlers' wives and families. The correspondent adds that the Government owns 5,600,000 morgen in the Transvaal. Though a large portion of that is not very suitable for agriculture, yet at the same time the amount of land in Lord Milner's hands is very large, and there must also be derelict farms and opportunities of acquiring land cheaply by purchase. I think, therefore, that it is very desirable that at this moment we should know exactly what is proposed and what is going to be done.
  I would further point out to your Lordships that South Africa presents unexampled advantages as a station for one of the Army Corps. For a long time to come it will be necessary to keep a large body of troops in the new Colonies, and the position is unrivalled for manœuvres and matters of that sort. The climate also is, on the whole, a good one, and if an Army Corps was stationed there, you would hold the central position in the Empire which guards the long sea route, the freedom of which is absolutely essential for our trade. I have only, in conclusion, to press two points on the attention of your Lordships. The first is that all these agencies, private and official, ought to he co-ordinated and thoroughly organised, so that they may work together and everybody may know what they are doing. In the second place, I hope that His Majesty's Government will have their measures and their conditions of settlement, whatever they may be, clearly
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  stated and published broadly throughout the whole Empire. I believe it is essential, if you wish to get Scotchmen and Englishmen to emigrate, that they should be told clearly the terms upon which they will go out. A great many persons, if they know that the Government has promised certain terms, will be prepared to take risks which they certainly will not think of doing so long as those terms are unknown to them. It is most important that the terms should be published over here. It is possible that something of them may be known in South Africa; but I venture to think that they are not known here, and the sooner they are published in this country the better. In making these remarks I wish it to be distinctly understood that I do not make any complaint whatever against Lord Milner and those working with him. No one is more sensible than I am of the fact that these men have done work for the Empire which is invaluable, and that they have gone through labours which have been almost beyond human endurance. But it is only right to point out that now is the time to get the men before the land is occupied, and that at this moment there is an excellent opportunity, if it be seized, of extending British influence and British settlers in South Africa.
  *LORD WINDSOR: My Lords, before my noble friend the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies answers the question put to him by the noble Earl, I should like to say a few words on this subject, and to join in urging upon the Government the extreme importance at this moment, not only of formulating schemes of land settlement, but of giving them the stamp of Government authority. The administrators of the Colonies have a difficult task before them, and if we have in this country young and industrious farmers, with a certain amount of capital at their command, both ready and willing to become settlers in South Africa, it does seem to me of great importance that they should be enabled in as easy a way as possible, to take their place in the building up and the development of that country. The noble Earl has referred to certain information which is known in South Africa, and he quoted from a newspaper a statement with regard to the land settlement scheme in

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  the Transvaal. I would, for a moment, draw your Lordships' attention to what has been done in the Orange River Colony. So long ago as the end of last year a Land Settlement Board was formed under the Administrator of the Orange River Colony, and the office of this Board was established in Bloemfontein. In March last inquiries were made of the Secretary of the Orange River Colony Administration about the scheme of land settlements, and a reply was received from Mr. Wilson, the Secretary, in which he stated that he had referred the letter to the Secretary of the Land Settlement Board, and he enclosed his reply. In this reply, after stating that in the then condition of affairs and the unsettled state of the country it was not possible to formulate any practical scheme, the writer proceeded—
  "I enclose a summary of the proposed terms under which approved settlers can occupy and acquire land. These terms have not been finally decided upon, and there is every reason to expect that the main conditions therein contained will he adopted. I understand that a hand book for the Orange River Colony is being prepared, containing all necessary information for settlers, and will be obtainable when ready at the office of the Emigration Information Bureau at Westminster."
  Having made inquiries at the Emigration Information Bureau, I learn that this hand-book has not yet been published, but it is likely to be published within the next three or four weeks. What I want to draw the attention of the House to is the fact that a good deal of information seems to have been issued in South Africa, not only in regard to the Transvaal and the Orange River Colony, but also, I believe, as to the terms offered by the Chartered Company in Rhodesia, and by others in Natal; but this information is, as Lord Camperdown has said, of too vague a character to attract respectable young farmers in this country, and it is not likely that they will take the risk—it is hardly right that they should do so—of going out to South Africa and investing their capital on terms which are not quite certain. I have seen it stated that it is not desirable at this moment to take steps to import any large number of British subjects into the South African Colonies.
  LORD RIBBLESDALE: Hear, hear!
  *LORD WINDSOR: And the incredible argument has been used that it is proposed, for the purpose of getting a dominant British element in South Africa, in order to swamp the Dutch element. Such a suggestion is now preposterous. There is no question whatever of a dominant influence. There is an opportunity now which there never has been before of developing the resources of South Africa, and it is clearly the duty of His Majesty's Government to see that some of the best elements of the over-crowded population of this country should be able to take-advantage of the resources of the South African Colonies. I am not blaming the Government in any way; for aught I know, the Government are engaged on this question. I only wish to emphasise the points raised by my noble friend, and to urge the Government to let the public know what they are doing, for unless they very shortly make their scheme public they will be unable to take advantage of the services of young farmers and promising young future colonists at the present time when they are very much needed.
  LORD LOVAT: My Lords, the two-noble Lords who have preceded me have approached the subject from a civilian point of view. I wish to say a word or two from the point of view of the soldiers who have been fighting in South Africa. The noble Earl's question divides itself into two parts. First of all, it calls attention to the desirability of offering facilities and inducements to British subjects to settle in South Africa; and, secondly, urges that regulations with regard to grants of land should be officially published. So far as the soldiers in South Africa are concerned, the terms upon which they can settle in that country have been issued and are well understood throughout the Army. I regret to say that those terms are such, and are so well understood, that the British soldier who has been fighting out there does not think they are worthy of consideration. They are a class of men who are anxious to settle in South Africa, but have only the capital they have saved during the war. The average soldier, in the Yeomanry especially, has saved from,£70

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  to £150. But, according to the official statement, a capital of £300 is required as the minimum. Therefore no facilities are given in the scheme which has been I published in South Africa, and which, I understand, will be laid before the House today, to a class of persons who are surely a valuable asset in the new Colonies, because no man with less than £300 can purchase sufficient land to live upon. In the whole of the Orange River Colony a thousand complete teams of oxen are allowed for the repatriation scheme, the average price per team being £250. A man cannot plough his land without oxen, and therefore he will require an additional sum for this purpose and to erect a house in which to live. There is no lack of land in South Africa, either in the Transvaal or in the Orange River Colony, but what I wish particularly to bring to the notice of the House is, that there is little or no inducement offered to the soldierly element to settle in the country. There is room to settle almost any number of men, but at present, outside the towns, there is an overwhelming number of Boers, who completly swamp the British settlers. In order to change this, and to get the people we want, we must offer very much better terms than any at present suggested. I desire to support the suggestion of the noble Earl who initiated this discussion in favour of the unification of method, and the bringing of all the schemes together. By this means, and by the offering of better terms, it will be possible to get British settlers where they are very much needed. After all, we ought to do something for the men out there who have fought our battles and who are ready to settle in the country if they are given the opportunity. I have been amongst the men, and I believe if money were brought to support their enthusiasm and patriotism we should have a most desirable number of settlers. I calculate that for an expenditure of £4,000,000 a minimum of 5,000 persons could be settled, who, without some such assistance, will be likely to become, eventually, members of that most objectionable class known as "poor whites."
  *LORD RIBBLESDALE: My Lords, I do not propose, in the few remarks I have to make, to follow the noble
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  and gallant Lord, whom we are so glad to welcome back from his dashing and successful service in South Africa, into the discouragements which he perceives to reside in the terms offered to the military community to settle in South Africa. I will address the little I have to say to the civilian settler question. The noble Lord who spoke first referred to the north-west portion of Cape Colony. I myself went out to South Africa and travelled through that part of the country. I went from Malmesbury to Lamberts Bay, right through the farming country. I had a sort of roving commission on behalf of some friends of mine in Craven, in the West Riding of Yorkshire—a great stock raising and sheep-farming district —to use my eyes as best I could and to tell them what I thought about the country. I have been, as it were, brought up on the land. I have lost money on the land and made a little money on the land, and one can hardly help picking up something here and there. I went about a good deal when in South Africa, and had the advantage of talking over these things with the Intelligence Officer of Colonel Kavanagh's column, who was himself a very large farmer in the Orange Free State. In addition, I had the further advantage of stopping for a night or two, when we were on trek, at large farms. I had, therefore, the opportunity of forming some opinion about the country, though, of course, mine were mere bird - of - passage impressions. Lord Camperdown spoke of the desirability of encouraging British settlers in South Africa. I do not suppose anyone would dispute the fact that that would be a most desirable thing, if it could be carried out, nor would anyone dispute the value of the suggestions as to the unification and concentration of effort, so that intending settlers should know to a tolerable degree of certainty what help they were likely to get from the Government when they got out there. But I am bound to say that, in my opinion, there is no great hurry. The Dutch are, and must continue to be, the agricultural backbone of South Africa, and I believe that is what you have to strengthen and elasticise. The noble Earl also spoke of rural life in South Africa. If anyone went out there

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  expecting to find what is generally understood as rural life here, he would have to completely remodel his ideas on a great many subjects. The rural life in South Africa is very different from that described in Goldsmith's poem during the happier days of Sweet Auburn before wealth accumulated and men decayed. The rural life in many parts of South Africa is more like that enjoyed by Alexander Selkirk on his desert island. No doubt money is to be made, but I believe the ordinary small farmer who went out to South Africa would fare very badly. He would find very little distraction in the French sense of the word, and a good deal in the English sense. These considerations, I think, are all in favour of delay. I should not advise any one to go out there unless he was able to take with him, in addition to the money he proposes to put into his farm, sufficient to support himself for twelve months or so, so that he might have a good look round before investing either his own or the Government loan money.
  THE EARL OF MAYO: My Lords, I rise to support what has been said by my noble friend Lord Camperdown and by the noble Lord beside me, Lord Windsor, the President of the South African Association, of the Committee of which I have the honour to be a member. I do not see why the noble Lord opposite should throw cold water on the suggestion of British settlers going to South Africa. All British settlers who have gone to a new country have generally had to look round for twelve months—
  *LORD RIBBLESDALE: I tried to distinguish between haste and speed. I thought the noble Lords who raised this question were rather in a hurry, and there are a great many elements in South Africa which recommend extreme caution.
  THE EARL OF MAYO: The effect of the speech of the noble Lord will be to discourage people from going to South Africa. It appears, however, that there is in South Africa a large quantity of very valuable land, and I would suggest that a leaflet should be issued giving
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  information to people who wish to go out there, and stating where they can apply for further information. The noble Earl spoke of the desirability of getting young Scotsmen and Englishmen to go out and settle in the new colonies, but I venture to think there are also many young farmers in Ireland who desire to take advantage of any favourable terms which may be formulated by the Government. I support the suggestion of bringing all the schemes together, so that the conditions offered may be thoroughly understood.
  THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of ONSLOW): My Lords, this subject is one to which not only the members of the Government at home but the Government of the Transvaal in South Africa attach the highest importance. I think it is only necessary to recall to the minds of your Lordships that in the early stages of the war the Government sent out a Commission, under the presidency of Mr. Arnold-Forster, to inquire generally into the subject. After that they sent out a gentleman of very wide experience in land irrigation in Egypt arid India, Mr. Willcocks, who has prepared a very valuable report on the subject. The general consensus of opinion, both of that Commission and Mr. Willcocks, was that the future of farming in South Africa is, a very brilliant one indeed. The noble Lord behind me (Lord Windsor) referred to the land board of the Orange River Colony. There are two land boards—one in the Transvaal and the other in the Orange River Colony. They have, however, nothing to do with the repatriation of the Boers. They consist of men of very wide experience, and the board in the Orange River Colony was constituted so long ago as September, 1901. The first idea of the Government, at a time when the country was very much disturbed by the continuance of the war, was that men should be settled temporarily upon such land as the Government was able to get possession of; and a very large number of people were settled temporarily upon the land for market gardening and the cultivation of cereals and stock. A number of those who actually proved that their agricultural experience was such as to promise ultimate success-have been permanently settled upon the

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  land. The experience that the Government gained has been very instructive. A very considerable proportion of those who were temporarily settled on the land have proved their ability to carry on their operations successfully.
  There are two conditions which are most important in any kind of land settlement. One if that you should have good land, and the other is that you should have carefully selected settlers. Without these two conditions, no scheme would be a success. I take it that your Lordships will agree with me that throughout the new colonies the whole of the land is under-populated and under-cultivated, and that there is room for a very large number of Settlers. The noble Lord opposite said the Transvaal Government owned a considerable area of land. That is perfectly true; but unfortunately it was almost all in unhealthy and unsuitable parts, and that land, therefore, is not suitable for the purposes which the noble Lord wishes to see fulfilled. Then, in the Orange River Colony the amount of land owned by the Government is extremely small—less than 1 per cent, of the whole. Therefore, the difficulties of obtaining land are very considerable. At the same time, the Government have been on the careful look-out for any land that may come into the market; and they have purchased considerable areas. The land in the Transvaal, as a rule, is heavily mortgaged, and the misfortunes of war have made those mortgages a more onerous burden than they otherwise would be; and no doubt, in the near future, as has happened in the past, a very considerable quantity o land will come on the market from men who want to sell portions of their farms in order to purchase stock with which to stock the rest. Then there is a large area of land held by companies for mining purposes. They do not, of course, particularly desire to utilise the surface rights; and the Government are hoping, in the southern and central parts of the Transvaal, to obtain surface rights over a considerable area of land from those companies. But I quite agree with the noble Lord that, if you are going to carry out a scheme of settlement, you must do so on a large scale, or politically it will be of no use whatever to you.
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  The Government are quite willing to-support Lord Milner in his desire to carry out a scheme on a very large scale. They had previously sanctioned an advance of half a million, and on the 21st June last they sanctioned an expenditure of a further half-million in land settlement. Lord Milner informed us then that he had expended £400,000 in the purchase of land, and was proceeding forthwith to spend another £200,000. The farms in South Africa are of many different kinds, and it is impossible to lay down hard-and-fast rules which will guide you in all cases. There are dry farms—farms of considerable area—which are not available for growing cereals, but are available for running stock. These lands are eagerly sought after by the best class of Colonials you can find— the oversea Colonials, who have been fighting for us in the war. Lord Milner says that, if he had three times as much land to cut up into dry farms, he could find oversea Colonials who would be only too anxious to settle upon it. Then, as regards the land which has been purchased, a great deal of it has already been surveyed, It is no use saying to a man, "You can have some land," and not telling him where it is. You must have the land carefully surveyed, tell him where it is and what are the conditions on which he can take it. Forty or fifty thousand acres have been purchased between Bloemfontein and the Basutoland border. That has been surveyed and cut up into parts, and the conditions under which it may be leased or purchased have been made widely known in the Colonies. I will deal presently with the reasons why that information has not been circulated in this country as widely as the noble Earl desires.
  I will now state what the conditions of lease and purchase are. If the land is to be purchased, it can be purchased by the payment of £5 15s. per cent, of the value. That amount will include purchase money, and will be spread over a period of thirty years, at the end of which time the land will become the freehold of the tenant. If he prefers, he can pay £4 10s. per cent, for a lease of five years, renewable at the tenant's option for a further five, ten, or twenty years. The noble Lord said that there was no provision known in this country

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  by which the tenant could obtain money to stock and make improvements on his farm. The Government of the Transvaal are prepared to make advances to settlers at the rate of pound per pound on all that they may expend on their farms in improvements, such amount in the case of leases not to exceed five years rental, and in the case of purchase not to exceed half the value of the land. The noble and gallant Lord, who has done such excellent service with the Lovat Scouts in the war, and, not contenting himself with military service, is devoting himself to the settlement of these men upon the land, said that £300 was the minimum with which a man could take up a farm in order to build a house and make the necessary improvements; but he added that many of the men who had been fighting out there, the Yeomen had saved from £100 to £150. If a man is prepared to put down £150, the Government will put down another £150, which will make the £300 which the noble Lord says is essential. Those regulations are not intended to be hard and fast. They are merely experimental, and as we go along we shall, no doubt, have to change them.
  The Government at home have the greatest possible confidence in Lord Milner and in his administration. They have given their sanction to those regulations, and they have explained to him that he must utilise them as he thinks fit, that he has practically got a free hand with these regulations. He assures us that every single provision in them has been considered with the greatest care, and after taking the advice of the most practical men in South Africa, including a number of Colonial gentlemen from Australia and New Zealand, who have very wide practical experience of the very successful system of land settlement which obtains in those colonies. I should like to say one word as to the preference which Lord Milner will give to applicants to be put on these farms. In the first place, the claims of members of the South African Constabulary will have precedence. Next preference will be given to men who are members, either of the Yeomanry here at home or of the Regulars or Irregular forces who have been fighting in the war. These claims
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  will come before those of any other persons, before those of any persons who may desire to go out from this country.
  LORD LOVAT: Should not the words "all other things being equal" be added?
  THE EARL OF ONSLOW: So far as I recollect, subject to their complying with the other conditions, they were to have the preference over anybody else. As I understand, an applicant from the Yeomanry with £300 would have the preference over a man in this country or in South Africa who had £500, although the man with the larger capital might, other circumstances being equal, be the better settler. The reason why we do not intend to publish all over the country the terms that the Transvaal Government and the Orange River Colony Government are prepared to grant to settlers is that Lord Milner has not, and cannot yet have, sufficient land for settling over-sea colonists, Yeomanry, and the members of the Regular forces who are clamouring for land at the present moment. Their claims must be satisfied first, and it would be encouraging undue expectations if we were to lead people in this country to suppose that they had only to go out and make their applications to find farms ready to their hands. I hope that, as time goes on, we shall acquire a sufficient amount of land to settle as many people who desire to go out from this country as are competent settlers. For the moment, however, Lord Milner has not enough land in his possession for the settlement of the South African Constabulary, over-sea colonists, and Regulars, who are desirous of settling. The noble Lord said, I think, that there were too limited a number of oxen for the requirements of the settlers. I am not able to say what the requirements of the settlers are; but I know that His Majesty's Government have appointed a Joint Committee of the Colonial Office and the War Office, which is specially charged to deal with the whole of this subject—the repatriation of the Boers, as well as the settlement of the British upon the land. I have the honour to be the Chairman of that Committee, and therefore I know something about it, and we have taken over from the military authorities a very large quantity

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  of material. We have taken 2,000 waggons, 14,000 oxen, 4,500 donkeys, 15,000 mules, 1,200 mule wagons, 1,000 Scotch carts, 20 trolleys, 47 traction engines with all their trucks, and all the blockhouses that Lord Kitchener left when he departed from South Africa. That ought, at any rate, to go a long way towards supplying with stock and materials for building houses, not only those whom we are settling on the land, but also the Boers who have to be repatriated.
  Both noble Lords desired to see the agencies that may exist, or do exist, for the purposes of settlement in South Africa co-ordinated. Well, we hope very much that there will be a large number of these agencies. There are one or two already. There is, for example, that of Colonel Hill of the Sharpshooters, and there are several others; and I hope that we may look forward in the future to a number of companies and individuals being willing to come forward and stand as intermediaries between the settlers and the Government, to advance money and help the Government to settle people on the land. But as to co-ordinating the agencies, I do not think you can do better than place them all under the administration of Lord Milner's government. That will be a co-ordination which will be simple, and which every one will understand. There is then the question of the settlement of women in South Africa. That question is very far from having been lost sight of. There are several agencies working in that direction, notably the South African Expansion Society. They have sent out a considerable number already, and His Majesty's Government are assisting them so far as lies in their power. We are endeavouring to provide in the transports that are going out accommodation for a certain number of women every week and every month. That accommodation is necessarily limited, because of the difficulty of removing the fittings which have been provided in the transports for the soldiers going to and returning from South Africa. But what can be done will be done, not only in this country, but also by Lord Milner in South Africa, and we hope to send out a number of women every month. I think I have shown that this subject is engaging the
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  most careful attention of His Majesty's Government and Lord Milner's government; that we are taking up all the land that we possibly can; and that we are putting settlers upon it, preference being given first of all to those who fought in the war and are out there. As soon as that is done, we intend to carry out a land settlement scheme on a large scale; but until we are ready to inform people that there is land for them, I think it would be unwise and premature to give extensive circulation in this country to the terms and conditions of settlement.
  THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: Are you advancing any money to the women?
  THE EARL OF ONSLOW: We have asked Lord Milner whether he will be prepared to advance a sum of money against sums of money to be advanced in this country by those who are interested in this movement, for the purpose of the erection of hostels at the ports, and in the new colonies to which women can be sent, and in which they can live until they find situations, or reach the situations found for them. Wherever situations are already prepared for them, we are willing to give them assisted passages.
  THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: Free passages?
  THE EARL OF ONSLOW: Free passages, except for the ration money, which is about 27s., and that is found by the societies which are sending out women to South Africa.
  House adjourned at twenty-five minutes before Six o'clock, to Thursday next, a quarter past Four o clock.