Lords Sitting of 1 August 1902

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
  DUBLIX PORT AND DOCKS BOARD BILL.
  Standing Order No. 143a, considered and dispensed with in respect of the said Bill.
  DUBLIN PORT AND DOCKS BOARD BILL.
  Read 3a, with the Amendments; further Amendments made; Bill passed, and returned to the Commons.
  RICHMOND HILL (PRESERVATION OF VIEW) BILL,
    LONDON AND INDIA DOCKS (VARIOUS POWERS) BILL,
      GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY (CRUMLIN VIADUCT) BILL.
      Read.3a, with the Amendments, and passed, and returned to the Commons.
  ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL ORDERS (No. 7) BILL [H.L.],
    GAS AND WATER ORDERS CONFIRM- ATION (No. 1) BILL [H.L.]
    Returned from the Commons agreed to.
    ELECTRIC LIGHTING PROVISIONAL, ORDERS (No. 8) BILL [H.L.]
    Returned from the Commons agreed to, with an Amendment; the said Amendment to be considered on Tuesday next.
    GAS AND WATER ORDERS CONFIRMA- TION (No. 2) BILL [H.L.],
      TRAMWAYS ORDERS CONFIRMATION (No. 2) BILL [H.L.]
      Returned from the Commons agreed to, with Amendments; the said Amendments to be considered on Tuesday next.
    RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.

      TRADE REPORTS.
      I. Miscellaneous Series—

      No. 579. Mining Industry in Spain, during the year 1901.

      II. Annual Series—

      No. 2868. Guatemala.

      No. 2869. Japan (North Formosa).

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      No. 2870. China (Wenchow).

      No. 2671. China (Kiukiang).

      No. 2872. Africa (British Central Africa Protectorate).

      NAVY (HEALTH).
      Statistical report of the health of the Navy, for the year 1901.
      RAILWAYS (CONTINUOUS BRAKES).
      Return by the railway companies of the United Kingdom, for the six months ended the 31st December, 1901.
      Forty-eighth Report of the Postmaster General on the Post Office.

      LOCAL TAXATION.
      Appendix to Final Report (England and Wales) of the Royal Commission on Local Taxation.
      Presented [by Command], and ordered to lie on the Table.

      Appendix to Fifty-Sixth Report of the Commissioners in Lunacy to the Lord Chancellor.
      RAILWAY SERVANTS (HOURS OF LABOUR).
      Report of the Board of Trade respecting their Proceedings under the Railway Regulation Act, 1893, 56& 57 Viet., c. 29, during the year ended 27th July, 1902.
      Report by the Board of Trade on their proceedings and business under the Weights and Measures Acts.

      BANKRUPTCY.
      Nineteenth General Annual Report by the Board of Trade under section 131 of the Bankruptey Act, 1883.
      Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

      HOUSING OF THE WORKING CLASSES.
      Report from the Joint Committee (with the Proceedings of the Committee and Appendix) made, and to be printed; Minutes of Evidence laid upon the Table, and to be delivered out. (No. 171.)
      ISLE OF MAN (CUSTOMS) BILL.
      Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Tuesday next.—The Lord President (Duke of Devonshire). (No. 169.)
      PACIFIC CABLE BILL.
      Brought from the Commons; read 1a; to be printed; and to be read 2a on Tuesday next. (The Earl of Onslow.) (No. 170.)
      ELECTHIC LIGHTING ACTS AMEND MENT (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
      Order of the Day for the Third Reading read, and discharged.

      BOARD OF TRADE—APPOINTMENT OF NAUTICAL ASSESSORS.
      LORD MUSKERRY: My Lords, I beg to ask His Majesty's Government whether one of their latest appointments to a position as nautical assessor at formal investigations into shipping casualties, is a gentleman who has held an official position under the Board of Trade, and has now been retired on a pension owing to reaching the age limit (sixty-five); whether it is a fact that the gentleman in question has had no actual experience at sea for the past twenty-two years; and if so, whether, in view of the dissatisfaction which has been expressed at the manner in which these maritime tribunals are constituted, and in justice to those implicated thereat, proper precautions will be taken when making such appointments in the future, that shipmasters who have had up-to-date experience in modern merchant vessels will be selected.
      THE SECRETARY TO THE BOARD OF TRADE (The Earl of DUDLEY): My Lords, the appointment of nautical assessors to inquire into cases of wreck is a matter which really rests with the Home Office; but, as my noble friend Lord Belper is not able to be here today, perhaps the noble Lord behind me will allow me to answer the question on his behalf. I presume that the gentleman referred to in the question is Captain Cowie, an officer who, for the last twenty-one years, has performed very valuable and responsible services under the Board of Trade. Captain Cowie served, first of all, for twenty-nine years
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      in the merchant service. For sixteen years of those twenty-nine he commanded vessels, both steamships and sailing vessels, and at the end of that time — namely, in 1881 — he was appointed principal officer at Hull. From there he was transferred in 1889, in a similar capacity, to Leith, where he remained until May of this year, when he was obliged to retire under the age limit. He has since been appointed nautical assessor for inquiries into wrecks by the Home Secretary. My noble friend appears to be dissatisfied with that appointment on the ground that twenty - two years had elapsed since Captain Cowie had any personal sea experience. That is true; but the Home Secretary is of opinion—and I am bound to say that I think a good many people will agree with him—that if a man like Captain Cowie, who has had a long sea service, is able to discharge successfully the very varied and responsible duties of principal officer at places like Hull and Leith, there is no reason to suppose that he is not amply qualified to discharge the duties of his new office. For, though Captain Cowie may not actually have been to sea for twenty-two years, yet, during that time, he has been in constant and close touch with ships, and with all classes and ranks of seamen. He has, therefore, been obliged to keep abreast of the times. If he had not done so, he would have failed as principal officer; but, instead of having failed, he has been, as my noble friend, I think, knows, a very marked and conspicuous success. Sea service is no doubt a very valuable asset for any man who seeks a position of this kind, but I doubt if any intelligent man, after he has been to sea for twenty-nine years, and has commanded ships for sixteen years, has very much more to learn in matters either of navigation or seamanship. I would submit, with all diffidence to my noble friend, because, after all, he has a personal experience of these matters which I cannot lay any claim to, that experience such as that which Captain Cowie has gained as principal officer at Hull and at Leith is at any rate as valuable to him, and as likely to stand him in good stead in his new post, as

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      if he had continued to tramp the sea discharging duties which had become almost mechanical from their continual performance. There is only one other point in the Question on which I desire to make any remark. My noble friend uses these words—
      "In view of the dissatisfaction which has been expressed at the manner in which these maritime tribunals are constituted."
      I am authorised to say that the Home Office are not aware that any dissatisfaction has been expressed with regard to the constitution of these tribunals. The Home Secretary is perfectly ready and willing to receive any representations which may be made to him with regard to the qualifications of the assessors he has appointed, but he is not prepared to admit any such hard-and-fast rule as that suggested by my noble friend's question. In the present case the Home Secretary is confident—and I am sure the House will agree with him—that by reason of his experience and his long service as principal officer at Hull and Leith, Captain Cowie possesses every qualification necessary to perform the duties of a nautical assessor.

      ALLAN LINER"GRECIAN"—SUSPENSION OF CAPTAIN'S CERTIFICATE.
      LORD MUSKERRY: My Lords, I beg to call attention to a case which has; recently occurred in the Admiralty Division of the High Court of Justice, where the certificate of the captain of the Allan Line Steamship "Grecian," which had been suspended for three months by a Naval Court sitting at Halifax, Nova Seotia, was restored to him on appeal, | Justices Jeune and Barnes characterising the charge as unfounded; but that, although successful in his appeal, the captain was required to pay his own heavy costs on the ground that the Board of Trade did not initiate the inquiry nor oppose the appeal; and to ask whether, in view of this great hardship, and the fact that it involves a precedent which may bear very unjustly on captains and officers in the future, the Department will communicate with the various Colonial authorities concerned, so that in similar cases some arrangement may, if possible, be arrived at whereby the Colony particularly concerned will, ex gratia or otherwise, defray the costs of the appellant; and whether
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      this important matter could be brought before the Conference of Colonial Premiers who are now visiting this country. This is a case of very great hardship. Captain Harrison of the "Grecian" took a pilot on board going into Halifax, and while in the pilot's charge the vessel went ashore. A Colonial Court of Inquiry was held, and the Court highly complimented Captain Harrison on the way in which he had navigated his ship and on the special care he had taken prior to the pilot coming on board. But the Court stated that they had no jurisdiction over the pilot, and there and then proceeded to punish Captain Harrison for the fault of the pilot, which, I think your Lordships will admit, was a most unjust thing to do, for no captain, after a pilot has taken charge, ever interferes with the navigation of the vessel. An appeal was brought by the captain, and Sir Francis Jeune and Mr. Justice Barnes, who tried the case, declared that the charge which was made against the captain was unfounded, and that a great hardship had been inflicted upon him. They stated, however, that they could not grant costs against the Board of Trade, because they did not initiate the inquiry or oppose the appeal. A ship captain's pay is not very great, which increases the seriousness of the matter, and I think some steps should be taken by His Majesty's Government to meet such cases in the future.
      THE EARL OF DUDLEY: As my noble friend has told the House, this is a case where a vessel was lost on the coast of Nova, Scotia, where a Colonial Court of Inquiry suspended the master's certificate for three months, and where, upon appeal to the Admiralty Court in this country, the master was absolved and his certificate returned to him. The counsel for the captain applied for costs against the Board of Trade, but costs were refused on the grounds that in this case the Board of Trade had done nothing to him at all, that they had not been instrumental in originally suspending his certificate, that they had not in any way opposed the appeal or added to the costs of the suit. The President of the Court did express sympathy with the captain that, having won his case he should have to bear the

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      costs which he could no doubt ill afford, and I personally agree with my noble friend that those who know the circumstances of the case undoubtedly feel sympathy with the captain in having this burden placed upon him. At the same time, I do not know of any means by which any remedy could be found in this case. I understand that there is nothing which we could do at the Board of Trade, and it is doubtful whether, even if the case is referred by the Colonial Office to the Colony in question, any steps such as my noble friend suggests will be taken in the future. I can promise him, however, that we will confer with the Colonial Office upon it, and that if there is any way of meeting such a case in the future we will endeavour to find it. It seems to me to be a question of detail, and one which could be more properly, if at all, referred by the Colonial Office to the various Colonial Governments concerned.
      House adjourned at a quarter before Five o'clock, to Monday next, a quarter before Eleven o'clock.