Lords Sitting of 29 April 1902

The LORD HERSCHELL took the Oath.
PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
  BARROW HÆMATITE STEEL COMPANY, LIMITED.
  Petition of the Barrow Hæmatite Steel Company, Limited, under their common seal, praying for leave to introduce a Bill to provide for the settlement of questions which have arisen between the preference shareholders and the ordinary shareholders in the Barrow Hæmatite Steel Company, Limited, and for other purposes, together with a copy of the proposed Bill annexed thereto; read, and referred to the Examiners.

  STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE.
  Report from, That the Standing Orders not complied with in respect of the Petition for a Bill by the Imperial Institute ought to be dispensed with, and leave given to introduce the Bill.
  Read, and agreed to.

BRADFORD-ON-AVON GAS BILL [H.L.],
  RICKMANSWORTH GAS BILL [H.L.],
    GREAT NORTHERN RAILWAY (No. 2) BILL [H.L.],
    Reported, with Amendments.
    SHEPTON MALLET GAS BILL.
    Reported, without Amendment.
    BRADFORD CORPORATION BILL [H.L.],
    Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
LONG WOOD GAS BILL [H.L.],
  ABERTILLERY URBAN DISTRICT COUN CIL BILL [H.L.],
    NEWCASTLE AND GATESHEAD WATER BILL [H.L.],
    Read 3a, and passed, and sent to the Commons.
    LEYLAND AND FARINGTON GAS BILL.
    Brought from the Commons; read 1a; and referred to the Examiners.
    WADHURST GAS BILL.
    Returned from the Commons with the Amendment agreed to.
CHARING CROSS, EUSTON, AND HAMP- STEAD RAILWAY (No. 1) BILL [H.L.],
  CHARING CROSS, EUSTON, AND HAMP- STEAD RAILWAY (No. 3) BILL [H.L.],

    CHARING CROSS, EUSTON, AND HAMP- STEAD RAILWAY (No. 2) BILL [H.L.],
    ISLINGTON AND EUSTON RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    CITY AND CRYSTAL PALACE RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    EDGWARE AND HAMPSTEAD RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    GREAT NORTHERN AND CITY RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    NORTH-WEST LONDON RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    GREAT NORTHERN AND STRAND RAILWAY BILL [H.L.],
    BAKER STREET AND WATERLOO RAILWAY BILL [H.L.].
    Report from the Committee of Selection, That the Lord Clanwilliam (E. Clanwilliam) be proposed to the House as a member of the Select Committee in the place of the Lord Harris; read, and agreed to.

    METROPOLITAN POLICE PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL.
    Read 3a(according to order), and passed.
    EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDERS CONFIRMATION (BARNES, ETC.) BILL [H.L.] (No. 55).
    A Bill to confirm certain Provisional Orders made by the Board of Education under the Elementary Education Acts, 1870 to 1900, to enable the School Boards for Barnes, Epping, Fernhurst United District, Liverpool, Manchester, and Swansea United District to put in force the Lands Clauses Acts.
    EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (SWANSEA UNITED DISTRICT (No. 2) BILL [H.L.] (No. 56).
    A Bill to confirm a Provisional Order made by the Board of Education under the Elementary Education Acts, 1870 to 1900, to enable the School Board for Swansea United District to put in force the Lands Clauses Acts.

    EDUCATION BOARD PROVISIONAL ORDER CONFIRMATION (LONDON) BILL [H.L.] (No 57).
    A Bill to confirm a Provisional Order made by the Board of Education under the Elementary Education Acts, 1870 to 1900, to enable the School Board for London to put in force the Lands Clauses Acts.
    Were presented by the Earl Waldegrave, for the Lord President (D. Devonshire); and read 1a; to be printed; and referred to the Examiners.

RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  THAMES CONSERVANCY.
  General Report of the Conservators of the River Thames, from 1st January, 1901, to 31st December, 1901, with a statement of the accounts of the Conservators for the year ended 31st December, 1901; delivered (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  AGRICULTURE AND TECHNICAL INSTRUCTION (IRELAND) BILL.
  Order of the day for the Second Reading read.
  THE EARL OF DENBIGH: My Lords, the object of this Bill, which has passed through the House of Commons, is to relieve the congested districts of Ireland from being liable for any taxation raised for schemes under the Agriculture and Technical Instruction Act of 1899, from the benefits of which they are excluded. I beg to move the Second Reading.
  Bill read 2a(according to order), and committed to a Committee of the Whole House on Monday next.

  NAVAL ARMAMENTS.
  THE EARL OF WILTON: My Lords, I beg to call the attention of the First Lord of the Admiralty to the fact that the majority of battleships and first-class cruisers in His Majesty's Navy now in commission are still armed with 6-inch guns having only a velocity of 2,160 f.s., or less, and to ask if it is intended to replace these low-powered guns with weapons of higher power which would be more suited to the attack of modern armour. I may add that these 6-inch guns are infinitely inferior to the French guns.
  THE FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (The Earl of SELBORNE): The noble Earl has put the Question in a certain form, and if I turn it round I shall not be in any sense inaccurate. I can turn it round by saying that since the majority of the battleships and first-class cruisers were put into commission, a gun of a higher velocity has been invented, both in this country and in foreign countries. In fact, the particular class and calibre of gun to which the noble Earl refers is absolutely the latest invention. It is perfectly impossible that at any given moment, either in our Navy or in any other Navy, every ship could be the latest design and every gun the latest mark. That is an absolutely impossible ideal. Nor is it always a very simple matter to exchange guns. A great deal more than the cost of the guns is involved. There are some classes of ships—for instance, the old muzzle-loading ships that have now disappeared from our effective lists—in which it was never possible to replace these muzzle-loaders with breechloaders owing to the construction of the ships. Again, there are other ships whose age and design would make it a waste of money to put new wine into old bottles, or new armament into old hulls; and, with regard to the battleships which the noble Earl has particularly in view, many considerations have to be kept in sight. A new mark of sun means new mountings, new instalments, and probably alterations in the magazines; and in all those cases the effect of the changes on the draught, the stability, and the metacentric height of the ship has to be borne in mind and carefully calculated. Again, I would remind the noble Earl that in many of the battleships and first-class cruisers, the 6in. guns to which he refers are only secondary armament; that the big guns are the primary armament of the ships upon which reliance is placed to pierce the armour of their opponents. I only mention all this to show that it is not the simple matter of exchanging one gun for another; that many things have to be borne in mind. I think the programme of the Admiralty this year is proof that the question of re-armament is never lost sight of, because, although much has been done by previous Boards in this direction, I doubt if at any time so many changes of great importance in armament were announced as I have been

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  able to announce this year. I can only assure the House that the Admiralty never loses sight of this matter.
  House adjourned at twenty minutes before Five o'clock, to Thursday next, half-past Ten o'clock.