Lords Sitting of 15 March 1900

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Certificate from the Examiners that the further Standing Orders applicable to the following Bill have been complied with:—
Crystal Palace Company [H.L.].
And also the Certificate that the Standing Orders applicable to the following Bill have not been complied with:—
Central London Railway.
The same were ordered to lie on the Table.

PRIVATE BILL BUSINESS.
  GLASGOW DISTRICT TRAMWAYS BILL [H.L.]
  Presented, and read 1a.
  BOURNEMOUTH CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
  Report of Her Majesty's Attorney General received, and ordered to lie on the Table.
  HEMEL HEMPSTEAD CORPORATION (WATER) BILL [H.L.]
  A witness ordered to attend the Select Committee.
  EDINBURGH DISTRICT LUNACY BOARD BILL [H.L.]
  A witness ordered to attend the Select Committee.
  COWES PIER BILL. [H.L.]
  Witnesses ordered to attend the Select Committee.
  EDINBURGH DISTRICT LUNACY BOARD BILL [H.L.]
    EDINBURGH CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]

      ROTHERHITHE AND RATCLIFF TUNNEL BILL [H.L.]
      LONDON SEA WATER SUPPLY BILL [H.L.].
      SUNDERLAND CORPORATION BILL [H.L.].
      NORTH-EASTERN RAILWAY (STEAM VESSELS) BILL [H.L.].
      NORTH-EASTERN RAILWAY BILL [H.L.].
      Report from the Committee of Selection, That the Earl Brownlow be proposed to
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      the House as a member of the Select Committee on the said Bills in the place of the Lord Avebury, and that the Earl Brownlow be chairman of the said Committee; read, and agreed to.

  NEWPORT (MONMOUTHSHIRE) GAS BILL [H.L.]
  Report from the Select Committee, That the Committee had not proceeded with the consideration of the Bill, no parties having appeared in opposition thereto; read, and ordered to lie on the Table. The orders made on the 2nd and 6th instant discharged; and Bill committed for Tuesday next.
  BARNSLEY CORPORATION BILL [H.L.]
  Committed: The Committee to be proposed by the Committee of Selection.
  BLACKPOOL, ST. ANNE'S, AND LYTHAM TRAMWAYS BILL.
  The order of Tuesday last, referring the Examiner's Certificate of non-compliance with the Standing Orders to the Standing Orders Committee, discharged.
  MENSTONE WATER (TRANSFER) BILL [H.L.]
    EAST STIRLINGSHIRE WATER BILL [H.L.]
    Reported from the Select Committee, with Amendments.
  WHITECHAPEL AND BOW RAILWAY BILL [H.L.]
  Read 2a.
  MERSEY RAILWAY BILL [H.L.]
    GREAT GRIMSBY STREET TRAMWAYS BILL [H.L.]
      LEITH BURGH PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL [H.L.]
      Read 2a (according to order).
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  EMIGRATION.
  Report on the Emigrants Information Office, for the year ended December 31st, 1899. Presented (by command), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  LIFE ASSURANCE COMPANIES.
  Statements of account and of life assurance and annuity business, and abstracts of actuarial reports, deposited with the Board of Trade under "The Life Assurance Companies Act, 1870," during the year ended 31st December 1899: Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.
  INEBRIATES AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL [H.L.]
  Petition for amendment of; of Lord Provost of Dundee; read, and ordered to lie on the Table.
MONEY LENDING BILL [H.L.]
Amendments reported (according to order), and Bill to be read 3a on Thursday next.

SOUTH AFRICAN WAR—BOER TREATMENT OF COLONIAL PRISONERS.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWN: My Lords, seeing the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War in his place, I wish to put to him a question of which I have given him private notice. Some short time ago I asked him to be good enough to inquire whether there was any truth in the report that Her Majesty's colonial soldiers and Her Majesty's subjects belonging to Natal and Cape Colony, who had been defending their homes and had been taken prisoners, had been confined in convict prisons at Pretoria, or, at all events, treated in a manner quite different from that in which Her Majesty's soldiers had been treated. I should be very much obliged if the noble Marquess would now tell me whether inquiries have been made, and with what result, for I am sure every one of your Lordships will be of opinion that this matter is a most important one which does not admit of delay.
*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE): My Lords, since the noble Earl mentioned this subject to your Lordships we have received from various sources information to the effect that men belonging to Her Majesty's colonial forces are treated with greater severity than soldiers of the British Regular forces. We are endeavouring to ascertain whether this is the case. I need not assure my noble
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friend that we regard the matter as a grave one, and if these statements are corroborated we shall certainly make representations in regard to the matter.

TELEGRAMS TO SOLDIERS ON SERVICE.
*THE EARL OF LICHFIELD: My Lords, I beg to ask the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War a question of which I have given him private notice—namely, whether he is able to announce any further concessions with regard to the rates for telegrams to the troops in South Africa.
*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: I am glad to say that we have received from the Eastern Telegraph Company an intimation that they are prepared to make several very important concessions in this matter. In the first place they are prepared to arrange that all messages addressed to soldiers and sailors serving in South Africa shall be sent at a reduced rate of 2s. a word instead of 4s. a word. In the next place, in the case of officers the rank, and in the case of non-commissioned officers and men the name, of the person to whom the message is addressed may at the sender's risk be omitted, the regimental number alone being given in the latter case. In the next place, the rest of the address, including Cape Town, will be charged as one word. Thus, if I may give your Lord ships a concrete example, a message sent addressed "No. 3383, 2nd Battalion Wiltshire Regiment, Cape Town," would be changed as two words only. These proposals have been referred to the postal authorities at Cape Town, but I have every reason to hope that an arrangement on that basis will be immediately introduced.
*THE EARL OF LICHFIELD: I beg to thank the noble Marquess for the extremely satisfactory answer he has been able to give to my question. I am sure the concessions to which he has referred will be gratefully received throughout the country.

MILITIA RECRUITS SENT TO SOUTH AFRICA—MUSKETRY TRAINING.
*THE DUKE OF BEDFORD: I beg to ask the noble Marquess the Secretary of State for War if it is the case that Milita recruits have been sent to South Africa

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without having previously gone through a recruit's course of musketry.
*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, it is the case that some Militiamen have gone to South Africa who have not gone through the recruit's course of musketry. The recruit's course of musketry can, as the noble Duke knows, be gone through at any time during a man's first year of service, and it was thought that of all the men who had not gone through the course were left behind the result would be that the Militia battalions would be deprived of the services of a number of men who, in point of age and in other respects, were quite fit to go out with their battalions. I may remind the noble Duke that these Militia battalions are intended to do duty on the lines of communication in South Africa under conditions which will, it is expected, give them ample opportunity of going through practice in musketry. It may also, perhaps, interest him to know that on board every transport which is taking out Militia battalions a certain number of rounds of ammunition are supplied for the purpose of musketry practice on board, and I am bound to say that if a man learns to hit the mark at all under such trying circumstances he probably would become a deadly shot by the time he reached his destination in South Africa.

MILITIA EQUIPMENT.
LORD BLYTHSWOOD: My Lords, I beg to call the attention of the Secretary of State for War to the fact that Militia regiments have been sent to South Africa with old belts and equipment which has proved useless; and to ask whether new equipment should not at once be served out to these regiments. I trust my noble friend will not think for a moment that I hold him responsible, for the Militia equipment has been old for a very long period. I am confident that, had he been able, the noble Marquess would have seen that the Militia battalions were equipped as well as any of the soldiers of Her Majesty the Queen. Still, it is a matter of great importance. The equipment of the battalion which I commanded was old when it was sent to us fifteen years ago, and the names of the regiments who had worn it were upon it. It was quite obsolete, for we did not get it till another equipment was served out to the British
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Army. When this battalion got to South Africa the men proceeded to scrub the equipment in order to get of the pipe-clay, and the buckles and everything else tumbled off at the same time. They were ordered to go to the Orange River the day after landing, and had to leave with their equipment all tied up with string and falling off their backs. Since then they have had to travel considerable distances, and I am sure the noble Marquess will not consider that their condition was one in which any battalion at the front should be placed.
*THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I was somewhat at a loss, from the terms of my noble friend's question, to know what was the character of the complaint he intended to make. He speaks of Militia regiments having been sent to South Africa with old belts and with an equipment which has proved useless. Now, if the noble Lord suggests by that that Militia battalions have been sent out with worn-out and unserviceable equipment, I beg to tell him that he has been misinformed. If, on the other hand, he suggests that their equipment has been of older design than that which is issued to the greater part of the rest of the army, then he is perfectly right. The equipment of the Militia is an equipment of older date than that which the greater part of the Army possesses. It is not, however, the case that the equipment now in the hands of the Militia is not also in the hands of part of the Army. Part of the troops in India, the garrison artillery, the Army Ordnance Corps, and the Army Service Corps have, I believe, the same equipment as that now in the hands of the Militia, and, although the Militia equipment is of older pattern than that of the Army it is by no means a prehistoric equipment, nor, to the best of my belief, an unserviceable one. The new equipment has gradually been substituted for the old one in the greater part of the Army, and I hope in due time the new equipment will be given to the Militia as well as to the rest of the Army. But I have to add this, that if at the present time any part of the Militia equipment is in an unserviceable condition, it is the commanding officers of the Militia who are to blame for its being in such condition. It is clearly laid down in the Militia regulations that it is the duty of every commanding officer to see that the equipment of his

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battalion is in a proper and serviceable state, and if he finds that any part of it is not in such a state it is his business to apply to the proper department for the substitution of articles necessary to make good the wear and tear of the equipment. If that has not been done the fault does not lie with the War Office, but with officers who have failed to perform duties clearly imposed upon them by the Militia regulations.
LORD BLYTHSWOOD: I should like to tell the noble Marquess that, during the twenty years I was in command of the battalion, I reported almost every year that the equipment was unserviceable in many ways, and seldom got an answer.
House adjourned at a quarter before Five of the clock, till To-morrow, half-past Ten of the clock.