Lords Sitting of 5 February 1900

HOUSE OF LORDS MANUSCRIPTS.
The LORD CHANCELLOR The LORD CHANCELLOR acquainted the House that the Clerk of the Parliaments had laid upon the Table the Calendar of the Manuscripts of the House of Lords, Volume I. (New Series) (in continuation of Historical Manuscripts Commission: Fourteenth Report. Appendix, Part VI.). The same was ordered to be printed. (No. 5.)
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  EDUCATION (SCOTLAND).
  Minute of the Committee of Council on Education in Scotland, dated 5th February, 1900, relative to the Minute of the 18th May, 1899, as to the application of Article 21 and Chapter IX. of the Code of 1899.

  TRADE REPORTS (MISCELLANEOUS SERIES).
  No. 521. Germany (New Imperial German Mortgage Bank Law).
  Presented (by command), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  GENERAL PRISONS (IRELAND) ACT, 1877.
  Order in Council approving of rule made by the General Prisons Board, in pursuance of the Fine or Imprisonment (Scotland and Ireland) Act, 1899.

  PENAL SERVITUDE ACTS, 1853 TO 1891 (CONDITIONAL LICENCE).
  Licence granted by Her Majesty to Clara Jane Mason, a convict under detention in Aylesbury Prison, permitting the said Clara Jane Mason to be at large, on condition that she enter the Royal Victoria Home, Horfield, Bristol.
  Laid before the House (pursuant to Act), and ordered to lie on the Table.

  LUNACY BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the Lunacy Acts—Was presented by the Lord Chancellor; read 1a; and to be printed. (No. 6.)
  ISOLATION HOSPITALS (AMENDMENT) BILL [H.L.]
  A Bill to amend the Isolation Hospitals Act, 1893—Was presented by the Earl of Lichfield; read 1a; and to be printed. (No. 7.)

  SOUTH AFRICAN WAR—CONTEMPLATED MILITARY MEASURES.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: My Lords, I rise to move to resolve—
  "That in the opinion of this House a full statement as to the military measures which Her Majesty's Government have in contemplation is desirable at the earliest possible moment."
  I rise really to ask a question of my noble friend the Secretary of State for War, but as I was anxious to make one or two observations upon that question I thought it would be more in order to put it on the notice paper in the form of a motion. I feel sure that the terms of the motion, that a statement from Her Majesty's Government in respect of military preparations is desirable at the present moment, will be acceptable to every member of the House, but it may appear unnecessary. That I do not dispute; and lest it should seem to imply that I attribute any reluctance to my noble friend the Secretary of State to impart that information, I wish to say at once, and emphatically, that such is not the case. Your Lordships will recollect that on Tuesday last my noble friend said, in answer to the noble Earl, Lord Rosebery, and, I think, the noble Earl the Leader of the Opposition, that he would at a very early date explain fully what measures Her Majesty's Government have in contemplation. A week has elapsed, all but a day, and though under ordinary circumstances a week is not a very important lapse of time, yet a week of silence in the present condition of tension of the national mind causes anxiety, and is hard to bear. I therefore hope that the noble Marquess will presently inform the House of the date, or, at any rate, the approximate date when he proposes to make his promised statement, and I venture to urge that it should be made with the least possible delay. The question of how the drain upon the normal military resources of the country is to be made good, how sufficient reinforcements can be sent to the seat of war, and how the defensive strength of the

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  country is to be raised to the requirements of any eventuality, is the one matter upon which the nation demands, and naturally and properly demands, information. One remark that fell on Tuesday last from my noble friend the Secretary of State caused me some little uneasiness. He said he did not consider the debate on the Address a suitable occasion to make a full statement "on a very technical matter." I would suggest that great detail is, at any rate in the first instance, unnecessary in the statement so anxiously looked for, and if a very technical explanation involves delay it is to be deprecated. Great technicalities and very elaborate statements of detail are apt to obscure the main facts, and what the constantly-quoted "man in the street" wants to know at once is what steps Her Majesty's Government are going to take to render effective the potential strength of the nation, with a view not only to the determined prosecution of the war, to the only settlement with which the nation will be satisfied, but also to preparedness against, I won't say the probability, because I believe there is no probability, but the merest possibility of the occurrence of any unforeseen event that might render still more grave the very grave and serious position in which the Empire is placed. In South Africa disaster—and I do not hesitate to say that up to the present the campaign has been disastrous—may be traced, in almost every case, to one cause—lack of sufficient strength. What is the result? Our forces are everywhere stalemated, and they have been asked to perform, and to their enduring renown they have performed, tasks which, even allowing for the magnificent courage and splendid fighting qualities they have displayed, were, according to the ordinary rules and arithmetic of warfare, disproportionate to their strength. We want to know that sufficient troops will be sent out to satisfy the now proved requirements of the case. We want to feel, in addition to that, that the Government are taking timely steps to provide against any possible emergency, however remote, that may add difficulties to an already difficult task. We want to feel that the strength of the nation will be utilised. There is a fund of strength—not inexhaustible but well-nigh inexhaustible—a fund of strength, moral and physical, in the nation upon which the Government may safely draw. They can rely upon it their drafts will not be dishonoured. The
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  fund is waiting to be drawn upon, anxious to be drawn upon; but to be utilised effectively it must be drawn upon in time. It is idle to try and disguise the fact that, justly or unjustly, the Government are thought to have been afflicted with defective vision, to have been all along troubled with a false sense of proportion and perspective, and it is unwise to ignore that an uneasy feeling exists that even now they do not fully realise the gravity of the situation. That feeling, however erroneous, should be dispelled. I may be told that even if Her Majesty's Government did minimise the situation in the past, it would be equally foolish to exaggerate it now. I do not think that is so. Neither Parliament nor the people will, I am convinced, quarrel with the Government for taking measures which may happily prove to be far in excess of anything that the future shows to have been necessary. I feel very sure that any measures that the Government think fit to take, however widely they may depart from ordinary custom and usage, will be welcomed, provided they are designed to place the nation in such a position that its utmost strength, whether for offence or defence, can, if necessary, be exhibited. That, I believe, is the one matter which exercises the public mind. People look with indifference if not with contempt upon speeches out of doors and debates in Parliament dealing with the past. Accusations and vindications appear to them very trivial matters now. Their attention is riveted upon the future. What they want to know and to feel is the certainty that Her Majesty's Government will take, and will promptly take, whatever steps are necessary to place the nation in such a position that its undeveloped strength can be developed, so that it may be able to prosecute the war vigorously to a conclusion, and, if necessary, defend itself under any circumstances which could possibly arise. Feeling strongly as I do on this subject, I venture to think that it is very desirable that a general statement, if not a full and detailed statement, of the steps which Her Majesty's Government intend to take, should be made known to Parliament and the country as speedily as possible.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (The Marquess of LANSDOWNE):

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  My Lords, nothing is further from my thoughts than to blame my noble friend for the desire he has expressed to be furnished as soon as possible with a statement of our intentions, and I have certainly no wish to postpone needlessly the moment at which his desire may be gratified. But I am told that it is customary and convenient that statements of such a description should be made simultaneously in both Houses of Parliament. The House of Commons at this moment is still occupied in discussing the terms of the Address in reply to the gracious Speech from the Throne, and the general impression is that that discussion is very likely to last for some days to come. I am told that this obstacle—the only obstacle—is likely to disappear, probably within the limit of a week from the present date; and I can therefore intimate that as the approximate time at which I shall be able to make a statement to your Lordships. I gladly notice what fell from my noble friend when he said that he had no desire to press for a minute statement of the details of our scheme, and that what he desired to obtain from us was a general outline of the proposals which we had in contemplation. Meanwhile, I may perhaps be allowed to administer a grain of comfort to my noble friend by telling him that the postponement of the statement will not, in my belief, occasion any delay in the preparation of the measures themselves, because we are taking it for granted that the country desires that such measures should be adopted, and we are proceeding on that assumption and losing no time. All I think that I can usefully add this evening is that I entirely accept what was said by my noble friend as to the double duty which is incumbent upon us—the duty, I mean, of making adequate preparations for the prosecution of the war in South Africa, and also for the securing of the safety of these islands during the period when they must necessarily be denuded of a large portion of the forces which are habitually stationed within the limits of the country. I hope I shall be able to show your Lordships that we see our way to provide for both those objects, and I may certainly repeat, what has already been said on much higher authority than mine, that, having addressed ourselves to this task, we mean to carry it through, if I may use his words, "to the only conclusion which will be satisfactory to the people of this country."
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: With the permission of the House I withdraw my motion.
  Motion, by leave of the House, withdrawn.

  THE IRREGULAR CORPS.—COL. EDIS AND THE INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF AUXILIARY FORCES.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: My Lords, I rise to ask the Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been drawn to letters which have appeared in the public press from Colonel Edis; and whether the Inspector-General of Auxiliary Forces has control over the various irregular corps now being formed. I have no intention of going into the question as to whether the letter ought or ought not to have been published, nor do I propose to enter into the subject-matter of the letter in any detail; but I should like some information on one point. The main complaint in the letter of Colonel Edis is that the Volunteer Corps are not allowed to recruit beyond their normal strength. I understand from an answer to a question given by the Under Secretary of State in another place that the Volunteer Battalions may be recruited beyond their normal paper strength to the amount of drafts which have been sent out to the seat of the war; but to limit any increase in these battalions beyond the normal strength to that amount does not appear to me to be a common-sense proceeding. The Volunteer force is, of course, a defensive force, and its great value is probably brought home to us more forcibly now, when the country is denuded to so very great an extent of the ordinary garrison than it has been before. I contend that if the Volunteer force is to be kept up to its true value as a defensive force it must be kept up to its full strength. To do that it is not sufficient to merely allow recruiting to the extent only of the drafts sent out to the seat of war. Commanding officers should be allowed to recruit to a considerable margin above their normal strength, not only to the amount of drafts which have gone out to the war, but also to make allowance for further drafts which may have to go out, and for the ordinary waste and wear of war. By that means only can these Volunteer Battalions be kept up to their proper strength. In an emergency like the present, when it is necessary that the raw material

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  of defence in the country should be turned into a more or less manufactured article as speedily as possible, I should have thought that there could have been no serious objection to allowing battalions numerically small to be recruited up to, at any rate, the normal strength of a line battalion, and I would venture to express the hope that the Army Order dealing with this matter may be interpreted a little more liberally. I have no doubt that my noble friend the Secretary of State for War knows as well as I do, and perhaps a great deal better than I do, that a certain amount of dissatisfaction exists in the country owing to the obstructions which are being placed in the way of the Volunteer movement. I am not going to inquire how far that is justified, but my own impression is that there is a considerable foundation in fact for the existence of this feeling. It seems to me perfectly inevitable that in a sudden and hurried movement of this kind difficulties and friction must arise. The wonder is that the friction is not greater. I have seen it stated in the papers, with what truth I do not know, that units have been disbanded because they were kept waiting so long that they did not know whether they would be utilised or not. Complaints have also been made as to the rejection, at the final medical examination, of men who have previously been passed by properly qualified medical officers. I would venture to remind my noble friend that in the matter of medical examination, for instance, there is a very great difference between the recruiting for the Regular Army and recruiting for the Special Corps. In the former case the medical men have to consider whether the recruit is likely, in the course of years, to become a charge on the country. I scarcely think that the Army Order dealing with the matter is sufficiently elastic. In my opinion, commanding officers and medical men ought to be given considerable latitude in the question of age, and some latitude in the question of dimensions. Many men considerably over the Government limit of age for the Regular Army, and perhaps not quite up to the proper standard of chest measurement and height, may be admirably adapted for the services required of them at present. I am not sure whether, in an emergency of this kind, it would not be advisable in this special corps to relax the sight test, and
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  to accept men who are short sighted, but whose sight is otherwise sound. There are one or two other matters which I should like to mention merely as examples of the difficulties that arise. Take the matter, for instance, of equipment. It is essential that all these special corps should be armed with Government rifles, but, with regard to the carrying of ammunition, if any particular corps favoured some other method, such as the Boer waiscoat, in preference to the Government bandolier, why should they not be allowed to adopt it? Many of these men are crack shots possessing their own rifles, and surely in such cases they ought to be encouraged to bring them, because they naturally suit the individual idiosyncrasies of the owners. There ought to be some authority dealing with these questions who could say "yes" or "no," and could thereby settle points of doubt. If I am asked by a man whether any allowance will be given if he brings his own rifle I cannot give him an answer. If I write to the War Office I may, in the course of time, get an answer on several cubic feet of foolscap paper, but considerable time will be wasted. I would venture to suggest that some authority should be created, if it does not at present exist, and should be instructed to push forward as much as possible the volunteering desire of the people, and to give considerable latitude in small matters of detail. This authority should be able to give authoritative answers to questions of the kind to which I have referred. I am sure my noble friend is most anxious to clear away anything which can possibly constitute a difficulty in the way of the volunteering spirit of the nation, which is so much to be commended, and I would appeal to him to take into consideration the small points I have mentioned, and devise some means whereby they can be obviated in the future.
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: My Lords, I think I ought first to state to my noble friend with regard to the corps which he describes as "the various irregular corps now being raised," and by which I think he means the Imperial Yeomanry and the Volunteer companies lately attached to the line battalions, that the members of those corps are treated as belonging to the regular Army. They are formally enlisted in the regular Army, and from the moment that they join the companies of Volunteers or the Mounted Infantry they pass under the administra-

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  tive control of the same members of the Headquarters Staff as the regular Army. They are, therefore, no longer under the Inspector-General of Auxiliary Forces, as they would be as long as they remained Volunteers pure and simple. As to the letter published in the papers with Colonel Edis's signature, Colonel Edis wrote to the War Office, his communication being received on December 25th, asking permission to raise two new companies for his Volunteer battalion. The answer which Colonel Edis received was this—that his battalion having provided a company which had been transferred to the line battalion, he was at liberty to go on recruiting to an extent sufficient to fill the vacancies thus occasioned. That was equivalent to telling him that the company attached to the line battalion was to be treated as supernumerary, and that his own battalion was not to suffer by the transference. But as to the further question, whether Colonel Edis should be at liberty to go on recruiting so as not only to add to his battalion sufficient men to make up the void, but also to raise further companies, permission to do that was not given at that time. It is quite clear that it would have been impossible to give a permission of that kind to one Volunteer colonel and not to others. The question was one of great importance, affecting the whole of the Volunteer force, and it was a question which, I think, we might not unfairly desire to reserve for examination. Colonel Edis did not wait for the answer to his letter; but, assuming that the answer would be in the affirmative, he proceeded to raise recruits for his battalion; and that, to put it mildly, was a little previous. If other Volunteer colonels had proceeded in the same manner, comment might have been made upon the ideas of the Volunteer force in regard to what is, after all, a matter of military discipline. I think it is to be regretted that Colonel Edis took that course; and, having taken it and put himself in the wrong, that he should have written a letter imputing to the military authorities feelings with regard to the Volunteer force which they are very far indeed from entertaining. But, my Lords, I certainly do not dispute what my noble friend has said as to the desirability of taking advantage at a moment like the present of as many as possible of those spontaneous offers of military
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  service which are reaching us from so many parts of the country. We have been considering that matter, and it is one which I will deal with when I have the honour of addressing the House as to the military steps which we intend to take. But I have not the slightest objection to telling the noble Earl now that our idea is this. All Volunteer battalions should be allowed to recruit up to a certain maximum strength, even if that maximum considerably exceeds the present authorised establishment. Of course, if you go beyond about 1,000 men, you get a unit which becomes too large and is inconvenient for military purposes. But where the influx of recruits is so great as to point to the conclusion that recruits might be obtained sufficient not only to raise the battalion to its maximum strength but also higher still, then we shall have no objection whatever to substituting for one full-size battalion two other battalions which might perhaps be of a somewhat inferior numerical strength. That is a perfectly fair way of meeting the desire which has been expressed. My noble friend spoke of the action of the War Office in rejecting men who had accepted a liability for service with these new Volunteer companies, on the ground that they did not come up to the physical standard insisted upon for the Regulars.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: Men who had previously been passed.
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: I fancy I am familiar with the case to which my noble friend refers. It was a case in which the colonel of a battalion raised a company and had the men examined on his own responsibility. He had not complied with the terms of the Army Order, which says that—
  "When a Volunteer commanding officer has received application for not less than a section of Volunteers, he will so inform the officer commanding the regimental depôt to which his battalion is affiliated, who will then, if they are to form part of the service company, have them medically inspected, and, if fit for service, attested."
  But in this case the medical examination was not conducted in the proper way, but, I believe, by some private practitioner, and without communicating with the officer of the depôt. The company was subsequently examined in the proper way,

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  and it was found that forty-seven of the men did not come up to the proper standards of height or chest measurement. My noble friend's observation upon that is that our regulations should be more elastic. But I ask the House to consider whether, in the case of these Volunteer companies—who are to serve with Regular battalions in South Africa, under conditions just as trying as those endured by the soldiers who have been fighting for us during the past weeks—it would be fair to the men themselves or to the officers who command them to send out from this country Volunteers who, in point of physical stamina, are distinctly inferior to the regular soldiers by whose side they are to stand in the field. We considered this matter, and we thought that it would be most inexpedient to relax the conditions on which we insist in the case of ordinary recruiting; and I hold strongly that, in cases of this kind, the exercise of a kind of dispensing power by the Secretary of State is most inexpedient. You should lay down what your best advisers tell you is a reasonable standard, and you should tell your medical advisers to ascertain whether that standard is reached, and not to accept men falling below it. But, my Lords, while we insisted on this measure of strictness with regard to these Volunteer companies, I am glad to tell my noble friend that in the case of the Imperial Yeomanry, who will be serving under somewhat less trying conditions, we did in our instructions dwell especially on the fact that these men would be required, not to serve for a term of seven or twelve years with the colours, like the ordinary soldiers, but for one year or for the duration of the war; and we said that they should be judged with reference to that condition. My noble friend is anxious that some authority should be appointed who will be able to answer questions on subjects of this kind. I believe that authority can be discovered without very much difficulty. It depends what the particular point is, but all these questions are allocated to the different members of the headquarters staff, and if there is any delay in dealing with them it is probably owing to the great pressure of work. I may mention in this connection, as evidence of our desire to meet the wishes of these newly raised corps in every possible way, that we have, in regard to the Imperial Yeomanry, been very much
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  guided by a committee of Yeomanry officers, who have been constantly sitting, and who have acted as a valuable intermediary between the War Office and the corps. This committee have been able to take off our hands a number of those very details which the noble Lord wishes to see dealt with by methods somewhat more elastic than those habitual in a public department. As to the question whether, if a Volunteer brought his own rifle he would be allowed to substitute it for the weapon with which otherwise the Government would supply him, the first consideration would be whether the rifle was the same as that issued to the remainder of the corps. Of course, if it necessitated the supply of different ammunition it would be out of the question.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: But if not, could he be granted some allowance?
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: I have not heard the suggestion made before, but I am willing to take it into consideration.
  LORD MONKSWELL: There was one point in the speech of the noble Marquess which I did not understand. The noble Marquess said that a different standard would be adopted for the Imperial Yeomanry as compared with the Volunteers serving with the Army. The noble Marquess put the difference upon the ground that the Yeomanry only served for a year or till the end of the war. Is it not the same with regard to the Volunteers?
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: The Volunteer company becomes a company of the line battalion, and serves with it. The Imperial Yeomanry serve under different conditions.
  LORD MONKSWELL: They may not serve under the same conditions, but the noble Marquess put the difference on the ground that the term of service was different.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: I understand from the Secretary of State for War that all these Volunteer forces and Imperial Yeomanry after acceptance become subject to the ordinary military authorities the same as Regular soldiers. It is

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  during the process of enrolling the men that these difficulties occur. I think that while a corps is being formed and before the men are finally accepted there ought to be some authority that one could appeal to during that period. It seems to me ridiculous to have to go to one of the heads of the War Office to ask whether a man can be allowed £4 for his rifle or not. With regard to the rejection, on the final medical examination, of the men to whom I have referred, the noble Marquess stated that the previous examination was conducted by a private practitioner. If my information is correct, they were examined in the first instance by the Volunteer medical officer.

  COAL SUPPLY FOR NATIONAL REQUIREMENTS.
  THE EARL OF DUNRAVEN: My Lords, I beg to ask Her Majesty's Government whether it is true that 400,000 tons of Cardiff coal have recently been consigned to foreign agents; and whether adequate steps have been taken to ensure a sufficient supply of steam coal for national requirements. It is most important that there should be an adequate amount of the best steam coal not only for Her Majesty's ships, but for the vast fleet of transports, and the announcement that 400,000 tons of what is after all a very limited commodity had been consigned to foreign agents gives food for reflection. I do not suggest that Her Majesty's Government should commence commandeering coal or that we should interfere with the ordinary course of trade, but the matter is one which should be very carefully watched. I should like to feel that Her Majesty's Government have got something in the shape of priority of call, and could, if necessity arose, appropriate for itself, paying whatever damages may be necessary, any large supply of coal proposed to be exported to foreign countries.
  THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE: I have been asked to reply to this question in the absence of the noble Duke (the Duke of Marlborough) who usually represents the Admiralty in this House, and whose engagements in South Africa render his presence here impossible. The attention of the Admiralty has been drawn to the rumour that a firm in
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  Cardiff has contracted to supply a foreign Government with 400,000 tons of coal, but diligent inquiries at Cardiff have so far not resulted in any confirmation of the statement. I need scarcely say, whether the statement is correct or not, the subject of assuring to ourselves sufficient supplies of coal for naval requirements is one which is never out of the mind of the Board of Admiralty.
  House adjourned at twenty minutes past Five of the clock, till To-morrow, a quarter past Four of the clock.