§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHMy Lords, I rise to ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider the expediency of removing the statue of Mr. Canning to a more convenient site than that which it at present occupies. For a long time past my attention has been called to the position of the statue of Mr. Canning, and I intended some years ago, when the late Lord Granville was in this House, to draw his attention to it in the hope that some change would be effected. But I did not do so because I did not consider my opinion would carry much weight in your Lordships' House, and another reason for not calling attention to the matter was that the site which I had selected was one which I thought the then Government would have objected to use for the purpose. The statue to which I refer is, in the opinion of those most competent to judge, one of the best in London. In its present position at this period of the year it is almost hidden from view by the trees which surround it, and I believe that not one Londoner in a hundred, if asked the question, could say where the statue of Canning is to be found. The site which I had selected on the north side of Westminster Hall is now laid out as a garden, and it occurred to me that it was hardly likely that the Government would adopt my suggestion to place the statue there. But I have since learned that the Government have agreed that the statue of Oliver Cromwell should be placed on that very spot, and that is the reason why I now bring the subject before your Lordships' House. I am quite ready to admit that Oliver Cromwell was a great man, or perhaps I should say one of the most extraordinary men ever heard of in the history of this country. But if there was one thing for which Oliver Cromwell was more remarkable than another, it was his overthrow, not only of the House of Commons, but also of your Lordships' House, and it seems to me a ludicrous perversion of history to select that very site for a statue of a man who overthrew both Houses of Parliament, when there are many sites in London where his statue might be placed without offence to anyone. It would be almost as ridiculous to place his statue there as to place a statute of George III. opposite the White 256 House at Washington, or to put a statue of Louis XVI. opposite the Elysée in Paris. The site, if it should be adopted by the Government, is one certainly quite fitting for the statue of so great a man as Mr. Canning, as it would be close to the place where his fame was acquired, and he would be surrounded by those who have distinguished themselves in both Houses of Parliament. At present he is separated from his colleagues and those who shone in the same sphere as himself. There is another site, should Her Majesty's Government object to the site I have mentioned—namely, in Parliament Square, facing the entrance to Westminster Hall. Either of these two sites would be preferable to the one on which the statue at present stands.
* THE EARL OF PEMBROKE AND MONTGOMERYOn behalf of my right hon. friend the First Commissioner of Works I have to say that it is perfectly true that, owing to the growth of the trees in the neighbourhood of Mr. Canning's statue, the statue is at the present time considerably hidden. The First Commissioner of Works has experienced great difficulty in finding a better site for this statue, mainly owing to its size, it being much larger than any of the other statues of public men in Parliament Square. It would be impossible, therefore, to place it in Parliament Square. The noble Lord, I think, first of all suggested that it should be placed in the new garden at the north side of Westminster Hall, but he has since heard that the Government have decided to put the statue of Oliver Cromwell there. I may tell the noble Lord that that decision is not the decision of Her Majesty's present advisers. The site was selected by the First Commissioner of Works wider the last Government, and, as the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury said in reply to a question in another place, the present Government are not responsible for the site and do not propose to make any alteration in the arrangements which have been come to by their predecessors. I do not wish to enter into the question of the desirability of placing the statue of Oliver Cromwell on this site, but it may be that its position there might point a moral as to the mortality of man, however great, and the imperishable nature of our institutions. As to the noble Lord's suggestion that the statue should 257 be erected in Palace Yard, I remember some years ago I applied to the then First Commissioner of Works—Mr. Shaw Lefevre—suggesting that the statue of Lord Beaconsfield might be put up inside the railings in Palace Yard. I was informed that the Department could not countenance the idea of having statues inside the railings of Palace Yard. The noble Lord also suggested that the statue might be erected in the centre of Palace Yard, opposite the main entrance. If it were so erected there would be considerable objection owing to the number of vehicles which are constantly in awl out, and especially on occasions when Mr. Speaker has his dinners awl levees. I may mention that it is proposed to lop the branches of the trees which now surround the statue, and when that is done I think the statue will show out extremely well.
§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHThe size of the statue is the very reason why it should stand alone. The proper site for it is below Westminster Hall, where it would not be dwarfed by nor dwarf any other statues.
§ THE DUKE OF RUTLANDMy Lords, I agree with the noble Viscount that owing to the size of the statue of Canning it ought to stand alone. That is exactly what it does on its present site. I happened to be First Commissioner of Works at the time the statue was removed from its original site. It was absolutely necessary to remove it because the Underground Railway was laid under the spot were it stood, and the engineering experts gave it as their opinion that it was not safe to leave it there. The Government of the day came to the conclusion that the place where it now stands was the most fitting place for it to be removed to. Although it is not close to the statues of other British statesmen, it, as it were, heads them, and is sufficiently near them to form part of the group. The present site has two advantages, one positive and the other negative. A much-frequented road runs in front of the statue, so that everyone passing has a view of it, but nobody can see the statue from the rear. If any of your Lordships doubt the value of that advantage I would ask him to saunter slowly down the bottom of Regent Street and Waterloo Place with his eye fixed on the rear of 258 the Guards' statue. He will, I am sure, come to the conclusion that it is expedient, if possible, that the rear of our statues should not be brought into any great prominence. Therefore, my Lords, on this ground I still think, although I am, in the opinion of the noble Viscount, the original criminal, that it would be best to let well alone in this matter. When the trees about the statue are lopped I believe the people of London will be quite content with the statue remaining where it is.
§ VISCOUNT SIDMOUTHI shall ask Her Majesty's Government on a future occasion whether they will adhere to the decision to allow Cromwell's statue to be placed on the spot to which I have referred.
* THE EARL OF PEMBROKE AND MONTGOMERYI thought I had answered that question. The First Lord of the Treasury said in the other House that the site was not chosen by the present Government, and that they did not intend to interfere with the decision of their predecessors.
House adjourned at a quarter past Six of the clack till To-morrow, half-past Ten of the clock.