§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSasked whether Her Majesty's Government would cause a rough model of the proposed statue of Cromwell, and the pedestal, to be put up, actual size, on the selected site. He pointed out that the height of the statue, with the pedestal, would be 33ft., and inasmuch as the statue of Lord Beaconsfield, close by, was, with the pedestal, only 20ft. high, and the statues of Lord Palmerston and Sir Robert Peel a little less, there would be a great want of proportion between these three statues and the proposed statue to Cromwell. The monument would also, he thought, impair the architectural effect of Westminster Hall. In view of these considerations he urged the adoption of the practice in vogue in France and America, a practice which had recently been adopted in this country in the case of the Boadicea monument—namely, that a model should be erected in the first instance, in order that the public might 810 judge of the artistic effect of a monument before they were finally committed to it. He had no objection to the site if the statue was not too big, but he thought the public ought to have the opportunity of seeing it in rough model before it was finally placed up. He would give the House a case in point. The Committee appointed for the erection of a monument to Sir John Millais, of which he (the Earl of Wemyss) was a member, decided that the statue should be placed at the Tate Gallery, and a question arose as to whether it should be placed inside or outside the Gallery. It was agreed that the statue should be erected outside, and two places were suggested, one being a position half way up the steps going into the Gallery, and the other in the garden. As the Committee could not come to any decision as to which site should be selected, they caused rough models to be made and put up on both sites. When this was done the Committee saw at once that if the statue were erected on the steps it would spoil the building, and eventually the statue was placed in the garden, but the pedestal and statue were reduced in height. He hoped the Government would favourably consider the matter to which he had called attention.
§ THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (The Marquess of SALISBURY)I am afraid it is not part of my functions to administer consolation to the wounded artistic feelings of the noble Lord.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSThey are not wounded.
§ THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSWell, they appeared to be, judging by the energy which he brought into his complaint. The noble Earl is aware this is a public monument in a very peculiar position. It was originally intended, I believe, to be erected by the agency and at the cost of Her Majesty's Government in the time of the noble Lords opposite, but out of deference to the patriotic feelings of the Irish Members it was found necessary to abandon that scheme, and instead of that the Government summoned from the "vasty 811 deep" some mysterious donor who was content to take upon himself a responsibility from which they shrank, and who was not afraid of the wrath of the Irish Members. I am told that he has been the cause of the production of a fine work of art by Mr. Thorneycroft, but I do not see exactly how the Government can gratify the wish of my noble Friend. There is a proverb, "You must not look a gift horse in the mouth," but my noble Friend wants to look the gift horse all over, not in the mouth only, and to put it through certain evolutions and operations in order to satisfy himself—
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSSatisfy the public.
§ THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSOf course, people always think of the public first—to satisfy the public and himself that it is in its general character suitable to the site it is to occupy. But we are not at liberty to do so; it is not our statue. The noble Lord must go to his conjurer the wise woman again to find out the mysterious donor and ask from him permission to do what he proposes. I do not venture to prophesy whether that permission will be obtained. There is no doubt something attractive and plausible in the suggestion that before anything in the artistic or architectural way is erected in this metropolis a model of it should be offered for the criticism of the public and the noble Lord; but I have doubts whether this would tend to a satisfactory conclusion. I have an impression that in art, as in diplomacy, it is better to trust to the fait accompli, and when the statue is once put up, one school of critics, at all events, will accept it with great enthusiasm and another will submit to it with great resignation. But if you put it up to be examined six months before, critics will have left nothing of the statue by the time their work is finished. These are only my own humble and personal criticisms on the suggestion of my noble Friend. My official answer to the question is, we cannot promise to do as he wishes because the statue, or rather the model, is not ours so to deal with, and until 812 the noble Lord has procured us that permission we cannot further consider his suggestion.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSsaid he was sorry he could not accept this as a reasonable answer. The name of the donor could surely be obtained from the sculptor, and, in fact, the name was known. The Government were not powerless; the Board of Works claimed and exercised full authority in such matters. A man could not even measure Lord Beaconsfield's statue without permission from the Board of Works—nothing could be done without the permission of the Board of Works—and who were the Board of Works but the noble Marquess and the Government? The Government would be neglecting their duty to London if they did not take every possible means before the erection of the statue to have the general effect shown. The Government or the Board of Works surely would not accept any work of the kind offered.
§ THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSMy noble Friend says I am saying the Government are bound to accept anything anybody proposes to offer.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSNo; I asked that.
§ THE PRIME MINISTER AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRSNo, for generally we pay for statues ourselves; but in this case we have accepted the statue and promised to set it up in a certain place, and it is not open to us now to say whether it is in the interest of artistic London to depart from that promise.